Episode 167 – Alex – gay dad

00:14
Welcome back, or if this is your first time, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series with me, your host Anna McKay. My guest on this episode was a co-host on the regular webinar series that I run. Those one-hour webinars are free and will take you through the surrogacy process in Australia. You will hear from a surrogate or parent and there are opportunities to type in your questions and we will try to answer them. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org.

00:44
This episode featuring dad through surrogacy Alex was recorded in September 2026. Alex and Carlo became dads to their daughters Elodie in December 2024 and Arabelle in June 2026. Their surrogate M, previously a stranger, was initially their egg donor, but became their traditional surrogate, meaning it was also her egg. They all live near each other on the Sunshine Coast.

01:10
They are also long-term attendees of this webinar series on over 30 occasions and twice having co-hosted. One episode called How to Find a Surrogate is episode 23 on the podcast series. And you can hear Alex talk about their first journey with daughter Elodie on episode 124. Alex and Carlo are the founding members of Australian Surrogacy and Donation, which has included a Facebook group, community events, Storytime for Kids,

01:39
and a gala awards night to celebrate individuals and industry. Apologies about the sound quality in this episode. I realized after that Alex’s microphone was quite quiet and then when I edited the recording into a podcast, parts of his speech became choppy. I hope you can still follow along reasonably well and hear his positivity for his team and for surrogacy generally. I hope you enjoy this episode. Alex, we’re gonna talk about Journey 2.

02:06
But as I’ve said in the intro, you’ve joined over 30 of these webinars. I guess tell me why have you been to so many? Yeah, and I think it started off being that every time we used to come to the webinars, there was always something new to them, whether it was a gay dad, a straight or a surrogate session, because you’re specifically set out with specific people. Also, the understanding the first part that you’ve just gone through is always a great piece to learn and understand, you know, what the

02:28
process was, to expect and hearing that model sent us form our own process and our journeys. But then hearing everyone’s experience every single time, this was before you started the podcast, right? We would either have to watch it on YouTube or we would attend. And then after a while it became a bit of a, let’s see how many times we come.

02:44
times and it can mention us. It became a bit of a thing after that but it was always still great to obviously be there and I didn’t realize it was 30 it’s like you know tapping your flyby’s calls knows so much about you and what you buy it’s like now you know you even to have attended I mean that was part of the reason why and we’d always jump on so if anyone is trying to beat my 30 jump on and you mention say hi in the chat because then Annel go oh look Alex and Carlo my regulars saying hi showing you how to use the chats.

03:11
It up being a bit of a fun thing to do anyway because this whole process is quite serious but at the same time you’ve got to enjoy the process as you go as well so and there’s lots of bits that we used to do along the way. I like that. I’ve got to say Lisa and Stuart are quite regular attenders here. Now not everybody else can see each other’s names so sorry I’ve just named you there. They’re regular zoomers on Friday nights too.

03:31
But there’s a tip for some people that they don’t necessarily have to come to the information part every time. They could come in after half an hour and just hear the co-host each time if they like. But I think you’ll even find too that you pick up the nuances in the information part depending on what point you’re up to in your journey, don’t you? Because it sort of hits home in different ways each time. That’s right, because obviously you’re not thinking about the expenses part first time out, right? But then you go, oh, now we do the expenses. Oh, yes, we set up a debit. Oh, we got a bank account. Oh, sorry. And that’s an interesting role. We did, we set up a joint. So M and I had a joint.

04:01
both had debits, not that I ever used it, it was there for Em and I’d tap and the great thing with the account is actually with with quarry right and she could actually then take a photo or upload the receipt so then we always had like a record of what was going on and she can use like you can use like hashtags in there as well as to physio manage things so that we could then keep sort of a bit of a toll a bit of a trend as well that to track it all out so that and actually it was even

04:22
just today, because obviously we’ve been through two journeys. The accounts always stayed open because we rolled from one straight into the other and there was always expenses. now Arabelle is no joke. I haven’t really spoken about who Arabelle is yet. I’ll tell you in the intro. Now Arabelle’s, she’s 13 weeks now, right? So she just tipped over the three month mark. I just checked in with them because she hasn’t used the account for a month and a bit. So I was like, hey, are you expecting to spend anything else? And I was like, ah, this just is another thing just to wrapping it all up for all of us. I think it’s the life.

04:52
maybe the milk that’s in our freezer would be the last thing. She’s like, no, I’m done now, I’m good. So it’s now like, oh, I suppose that account, you know, there’s like hundred bucks left in there. So it’s whittled down to wherever we should say. But yeah, it’s just another one of those moments when you get to an end of a journey or two journeys and then you’re like, oh, we’re the whole thing up now, part of our lives or journey and on both sides is now complete. That project part comes to an end there type of thing. I’m sure one question new people might ask is when you mentioned receipts,

05:22
Was it the type of thing that you felt you had to keep for legal reasons for parentage or anything like that? No, I think it was more a curiosity thing as to how much is getting spent in area. We were really diligent right at the very beginning, even like flying to Sydney to go to an event around surrogacy.

05:38
track it all in our spending and then after a while you just forget to update it and then I couldn’t I think I couldn’t even tell you when we last updated it so we’re like we’re like this now and what was our J how much did that cost you know so we did keep it in terms of just for a bit of fun but also at the centre I know for Aloe he kept it because he’s a stickler for stuff like that so there’s a track record in case we got up and audited or something like

05:57
Well before we go to your photos, since we’re talking money, as we talked about it right at beginning before the recording, roughly how much has it cost you for your two journeys then Alex? Yeah we were just talking about this before and thinking about it. So we reckon our two journeys, and we know this is on the lower, it’s probably about six in total and that includes yeah from fertility, obviously expenses on outside and including all the things that you’re speaking about.

06:18
takeaway meals, clean up, that sort of stuff. And we’re very lucky we live in the same state. We live about an hour away from each other. So it’s easy to see each other, it’s easy for us to make some containers of food and stick it in their freezer. And then it’s easy for us to go to the easy for us to so that contributes to the health part. And also, obviously, and we weren’t doing it to reduce costs, because there was an ugly well at the end of the day to go whatever. It’s more of that whole team support as well. not a I know when you talk about the average, what do you say normally is it 30 to 90? say is it

06:48
with an average of about 60 is often what I say. And that’s for one, we were at 72 so and that’s not down to us being tight asses, that’s down to mostly to do with him being just genuinely not wanting to go out. She found some great maternity outfits on Tmoo and she’s like, no, I’m not. I remember she asked, sorry I’m joking around a bit. I remember she asked.

07:08
and what’s my budget maternity? So I say, we got like a thousand dollars. And she’s like, are you kidding me? No way. I mean like a couple of hundred dollars, mate. I’m like, don’t know. Do I say not like a couple of hundred dollars and she’s thinking $3,000 or do I say, you know, a thousand dollars? Maybe that’s the happy medium. I don’t know. But she was, she, and she loved those ads and they came out again for a journey to, yeah. And she was so happy with all of that sort of stuff as well. And even just shopping for.

07:32
you know, she enjoyed it, she liked it, she enjoyed it, but she liked certain brands, so and there were some that were more expensive and we’re like sure go for it because you like it, you’re blowing it, you’re not having to like point your bra up and it’s the wires sticking in and this and whatever it might be, you know, she’s comfortable and she had but she had this whole always never want, she hated to say, we had to have a separate WhatsApp chat just for money and and quite often when she wouldn’t let me pay for something that she was entitled to whatever position and I’d be like do we have to have a money conversation? like yes.

08:02
The easiest way is I’m paying. So, you know, the same time we would, we were always trying other things as well. If we all want dinner, then we’d have dinner, you know, it’s like friends where you’re like them and us and then we swap over next time. This is a big thing for us. So it’s the little things that we do along the way and…

08:17
That was an easy one to do. pick up the bill because then there’s arguing. just be like, yeah, that’s nice. Again, I’ve done however many of these over five years and I’ve never heard of that. Having a WhatsApp separate channel for the money chats. Then it keeps track of it. And because talking money is awkward, but almost if you have like that third party, almost a separate chat, then it can just be, we’ve got to have the dirty talk about money and whatever costs are coming up, et cetera. Okay. Great suggestion. And I know for sometimes surrogates partners sometimes help out with that if the surrogate struggling, but if

08:50
if she’s single you probably be given a bit of support. If you’re local. If you’re local but if you’re not like trying to be able to do things remotely or just coordinating things for life there’s lots of things to do whether you’re local or but no equally like second journey there’s probably a bit more where because we’d had that gap in between where you can’t suddenly go journeys over now we’re friends so friends do things in equals and things like that so it was going back into the second journey it’s like oh we don’t we did quite flip back again so it was kind of a little less a little if that makes sense they would they would do a little more like that like they’d have us around for dinners all time

09:20
will be using his new smoker and they’ll be buying all these big pieces of meat which aren’t cheap right so you know and that’s nice for them to do for us so they need that for us.

09:28
Yeah, your ongoing friendship there. So, well, let’s spend a few minutes doing the photos. So ultimately you had 18 months ish in between the births of the girls. So M offered to go again, saying, and basically saying, if we’re going to do this, I’ve kind of got some time frame. So let’s get on with it. Yeah. Yeah. It was before it was, I think about the September before I it go. So it’d been September 24, which was three months before I was born. And that was, so that was two years now basically going, Hey, before I’m in, can you let me, what you want me to say? That was literally the text. was just because I’ve got an agenda and she’s very, very organized.

09:58
in her life and she likes things out in her years and now she’s got her goals and things that she wants to achieve that year and we’re like yes absolutely we would love to and we’re like whatever suits you you know because we would love to go yeah that was kind of the how it was broached that subject was broached

10:12
So yeah, interesting. And so then I’ll, I’ll launch into sharing the photos. So obviously in this photo, it’s a heavily pregnant with second baby here, maternity photo. I guess, is there anything you want to say in the lead up to this photo? Anything about the journey in particular, the counseling, the legal, the IVF, or is there anything that springs to mind? Yeah. So counseling was, we used the same counselor, second time out. And we also during Elodie’s journey, um, and counselor retrimester as well. So we offered it, we said, we’re going to book it in any way, use it for you five minutes.

10:42
That’s fine. If you have 20 minutes, that’s also fine. We can do it together. You can do it all on your own. So we did a mixture of sessions and would often start our own, not want to do it and then get value out of it. And she did. So, that’s what we want to do. I think that’s what helped us hold everything together throughout the entire journey. Not that I think we would have, I think we would have been okay, but I think there were just always some things that here and there that don’t get talked about. And I think this was a great opportunity to do. What that meant was that when we came to doing counseling, I think the word used where you do like three long sessions. So we’re doing it a second time.

11:11
session was like eight and the other was like ten. But everything was done within an hour. So I think that’s because obviously we used Narelle from Lotus and she was great because what we were doing was literally a copy and paste again, you know, because we had a really good journey, prentice, etc. Narelle was even struggling to find questions to ask us and things like

11:34
So yeah, that was one thing was the counseling. Legals, we use the same legal teams as well. H Queensland, Sarah Beffa, Edmond and Sydney. And they’re a great team, legal team, both of us as well. And very appropriate in that we did make sure we were squeaking across the legals. But again, it was the same agreement that we were using, just changing the date. That was pretty cheap. So that was quite a straightforward process. We did actually do, so we had from an IVF one of your fertility this, we had four, I we had four embryos. We had four embryos in three.

12:03
and wanted to do another egg collection because, and I get it right, because if you go one embryo one, embryo two, and three and four, that’s four months of embryo transfer. And then you do an egg collection, then you go to white sets and then you start all again. And so I think it was just from a toy we did it. I can tell you we collected like 30 eggs the first round, couldn’t even tell you the second round, second child, right? You don’t know what’s going on the second time round. Yeah, so we did that and it was great to do. We’d still got another four, five, think five embryos. I can’t remember the numbers now. We had back.

12:30
So we’ve got enough if we keep going to create our own football team. on that, people ask, and I know I partly already know the answer this, when you say you could create your own football team, have you got plans in the future of maybe having more children than Alex? Maybe. So M’s done though, as you’re M’s done. M’s M’s done three pregnancies and two egg donations. First surrogacy journey was Alice, who was born in March 2022. And then second was Elodie in December 4 and then about June.

12:58
And then a lovely girl who she donated eggs to as well in WA. She will keep going for the rest of time if she could, but I think she’s been 10 years, pretty much 10 years of donations, creating families for people in different places, which is phenomenal, know, a phenomenal thing to achieve and do, and do for yourself and do for people. But I think now it’s time to focus on family and get her back again into doing that.

13:20
because the last four years has been us basically for four years. You know, that’s an incredible thing to do for anybody. And I know she’s, she’s, she would love to go, but there is a time when it’s you hang up your uterus as you say. That’s what we say, yes. And it just goes to show what some people can do and an incredible human to do that as well. So we’ve got the maternity photo there. And then I think we come to the photo of the day of birth. she, um, Arabelle was a few days early. Is that right? Arabelle was second child, um, a few days early. was.

13:50
a bit early and actually Arabelle came about nine days after Em went into labor. Oh right, so she was having labor, right. Yeah it was such a shame actually. Arabelle was born 39 weeks to the day so yeah so we were pretty good. Em, we went in she was like niggling it’s like yeah she’d called midwife, midwife’s like I mean and she was basic contract and we thought we’re having a baby that night. Our birth photographer turned up and we just spent the next 24 hours just…

14:17
waiting and then everything just kind of stopped. So like, oh, and they sent us on our way. So and continue to contractions for days. that’s exhausting. Yeah. Not I don’t think there were full blown contractions, but I’m thinking, I’m thinking mentally of the thinking through like, what am I going to do with my own two children? What are the logistics if it comes today? If it comes tonight, like, wow, that part’s exhausting. Yeah, absolutely. So this was obviously on the day and we went in, I it was late the night or an hour or so.

14:46
Now we brought our foot back up, that was great. And the plan was to see that she was sitting so low. then so the midwife was like, look, we will induce her. think it was like 8.30 in the morning or something like that. to break her waters. As we were getting through the night, we actually were doing cord blood collection as well. And we’re on the phone to these people going, oh, she’s at this point.

15:05
And then I was, I was, we were like, oh, literally the babes, and that’s like what was for? And everything just turn of events, just everything just spun from going, yeah, we’re cruising through the evening and you know, obviously got contractions. And then all of a sudden, 15 minutes later, Arabelle was there. Like, I think it was about 10 past four, like where’s Carla? Where’s Carla? He’s gone to the toilet, right? The old usual thing, they go to the toilet and then they miss it all. I’m like calling him and calling him and calling him and he’s obviously picked up his phone. I’m like, and I look out the door, he’s wandering down the corridor, gingerly, I’m like, get inside, we’re having a baby. It’s like, what?

15:34
Even though he told us where he was, it was just all of a sudden a bit chaotic. So yeah, and because it was so early in the morning, unfortunately our collector, Do the Corp, didn’t arrive until two hours later, so they came to Brisbane to the Sancho’s. So ultimately we managed to collect cells, but we didn’t have blood cells to be able to do the blood collection. But this is who knows what time it was. have no idea, I was seeing if someone’s got a wardrobe.

15:54
or something. Who knows? Pretty amazing thing to be present at the birth of your child, right? 100%. And I think N.D.’s birth was done very sort of discreetly with our midwife and it was very strange because Kurt, Paula and I were kind of sat on in the chairs just sort of behind where we’re sat now. It was the same birth suite and Em just got comfortable sort of slightly angled facing us and she had the sheet up over her leg and then all of a sudden I popped the baby, you know, so it done really sort of discreetly and

16:21
really nice and our midwife was super conscious of things like that as well. But that was lovely. Arabelle, I was there ready to catch and I was like, I’m not a hospital medical blood person at all, like I’ll be down on the floor and I even had counseling around, if you’re gonna go down, walk out the room because it’s not about you. I’m like, okay. I was fine. And actually after Arabelle, I was, I wish I was more involved. And so I was, and this time Carlo and I swapped roles. Last time I had first hold and he caught and this time we swapped this time.

16:49
here. Really lovely to share it. Beautiful. Yeah, and then this, we had a similar photo when we left with Elodie. So this was us leaving with her at the hospital the same day. There you go. Yes. Public hospitals, vaginal birth, don’t necessarily have to stay. So no, we’re all keen to get out with this Arabelle that was done last with checks and this doctor on the hearing test and all that sort of stuff. so yeah, so was, it was a, it was a nice,

17:11
And then I’m sure for some teams you know are wondering it and so that but then of course you still continue to see each other probably every day the first week and and that sort of stuff so um if people want much more detail about some of these photos listen to that episode 124 and particularly where they talk about the ham and that’s what we get in the middle photo here again Alex? Yes there’s the ham there yes so Arabelle being sorry Elodie being born in December she was actually due the end December.

17:39
I think it was the 27th was her due date. so after Christmas, which meant that was still pregnant, she couldn’t have had Christmas ham. There’s this whole thing about him missing Christmas ham. She loved it. She’s like this baby better be out before Christmas. So we’re like, we did a ham exchange. I think there’s a photo if you watch the YouTube video for the other episode. There’s a whole handing over the ham and things like that, which is, which was a thing. And then we decided.

18:01
do the same thing this time. So that middle photo is him opening up the hospital blanket. And then some beautiful tender moments of know surrogate Em holding Arabelle and I’m sure some IPs at the beginning I don’t know I wonder if people are sort of nervous about the bond like watching your surrogate clearly looking at your child really lovingly because she has love and care there but not feeling threatened by that and thinking oh she’s getting too close oh I should not let her have these moments. Can you expand on that concept for us?

18:31
thought that ever came to our mind, even with Elodie. One thing we agreed on upfront in our early days of conversations and things like that.

18:38
We wanted Em to breastfeed enough to be able to bring in the milk, but we didn’t want to continue doing feeds directly on the basis that if it becomes a good thing for the baby, then we can’t provide that when Em’s not there. So we didn’t want to cause distress and distress with the baby if we weren’t able to provide it. And that was the main reason for doing it. Now with Elodie, we had to do an extra few more feeds, then we agreed on no issue. were like, of course, do that because we know the benefits of Em expressing milk for both the children is an amazing thing for us to continue doing and giving the breast milk as long as possibly

19:08
and Arabelle took a little bit longer as well, know, as well as her as as quickly as I’ve previously. And so there were a few more feeds. Even that didn’t bother us, even though we agreed that it would be like two feeds and that was it. So yeah, so it was good to be able to support on that way as well, but there was never a thought that we’re going over the line here, what we agree, you know, because some things you gotta, you take the, you gotta take the hit on something to get the benefit later on as well, you know, because if we didn’t, know, end as a milk option and we don’t be able to give best to the girls.

19:35
as well. So it was a, you know, it didn’t even cross our minds either of those. So yeah, I’m just, I love, I love seeing, look at the girls, which is why I take this photo because it’s just such a, and this thing to see. And let’s be honest, and we’ll say it, she does not expect she’ll love her own and she loves ours and she’s produced and it’s really nice to see that. Different story now when we go over and see Auntie Em and take Zara Bell. And then as soon as she starts crying, she’s like, oh, here you go. She’s yours. It changes. Yeah. What credit to your team here. And then we’ll finish off with a couple of photos. So these are

20:05
daughters, you know, holding your, that’s holding Arabelle I’m assuming. That’s both Arabelle, yes that’s right. Yeah, one’s at our house, one’s at theirs. Yeah, it’s nice and it’s so nice to see the girls so besotted by the babies. So when Elodie was born they were like amazed and even when Arabelle was born, bearing in mind they’re 18th’s older and they’re still like eight and nine, right, so they’re still young. But they’re in a different age group all of a sudden, like you know versus…

20:28
six and seven, eight and nine. It’s great to see so caring and going towards both the girls as well. Yeah. And your teams obviously build up that friendship there. And this is a continued thing there. So, Carlo’s got…

20:37
Arabelle in his arms there. But this was after, I think you said the girls had a dancing concert, but just a sign that you’re friends now and you hang out doing things together. Yeah. And I love this photo. I mean, this was just a very quick, because I just like, was following them down and I was like, the girls were holding with Elodie, which I was super cute. And then just having it there and things like that. It’s just so nice to then see them all together with our family and the two families together. And yeah, this was straight after a dance, a concert girls had done, which actually made Elodie want to do dancing. So now we dance.

21:05
Righto. seeing this, it’s like we caught up with Carlo’s cousin the day and they’ve got two youngest children, one six and there’s three, you know, and to then see Eladina’s husband there as well, it’s like it’s not just about Em’s family and the extended family right here, it’s like you see great grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins and that’s exactly what we love seeing when we see her because she’s at that age of playing with everyone and grabbing all the toys and playing with them and you know sharing to things and so it’s really nice to see that at this stage of our extended family beyond Em and

21:35
as well. then just some photos of you guys being dads you got your two girls there and their sisterly bond. Yes Elodie is a solid part of us you know we were always good conscious from day one and there was a little bit like who’s this now in my house why are you screaming so much you know that thing.

21:51
We’ve seen a transition to her, how loving she’d be and caring. You know, she’s like, Aron, Aron. And we’re like, okay, it’s okay. We’ll go, we’ll go check on her now. And then she’s like, cuddles, kisses, you know, and hold. And then as soon as you give her to hold, isn’t my love, it’s like, we’ll always say yes, because we know it lasts for about three seconds. And then she’s like, all done.

22:09
Oh, done. Yeah. Get off me. Get her off. And then just continuing, because you’ve now got a toddler to sort of keep entertained. So out, you know, doing painting and crafts and juggling too. That’s right. This was at Brisbane, at the State Library in Brisbane. I went into work. This was a Saturday, actually. I went into work for a couple of hours, dropped all the girls off there. They did two activities. I came back and continued painting for

22:29
good half an hour and Elodie absolutely loves painting so now I’ve had to buy paint, scissors, cutting because now I was cutting something the other day and she’s like Elodie cut it? I was like ah no so I had to look for some like plastic scissors so now we’re teaching her how to cut so it’s just a whole shift right when you move into the toddler world and you’ve got loads more to come down the line as well so yeah it’s exciting. Yeah so I’ve got a balance of questions and things I want to ask I will read out one question that Danielle she’s going for probably breaking your record in the future too for webinar attendees so… I better start.

22:58
back again. Oh you’re better right? And she often asks questions too. So she says as you’ve heard in my presentation that I have a tradition, a surroversary and a Christmas tradition. She says do you Carlo and Em celebrate any special days or traditions together? Part of me already thinks but your friendships are so intertwined and you guys kind of work together now too. I’m not even sure if you have separate traditions or if your lives are so entwined.

23:22
They are very much in twine now, so we do do the Christmas tree. That is a Christmas tradition we’ve been doing and we have the girls come and put the decorations on the tree. After the first year I realised that you don’t give them all the decorations, give them those cheap decorations and then after the second year I realised that you have to go and bring over the goods anyway as well. When they’re not there.

23:39
And we’ve to make sure the lights are on first because otherwise that becomes a whole other thing. So we’re learning this year. I’m hoping it will either go to plan or there’ll be something else we realise we’ve got to do. Now that’s a nice little thing that we’ve been doing is the Christmas tree one. And I think we got that from what you’ve done with your own team. Maybe, there we go. Before I ask you some other questions, is there anything that springs to mind that you would like to add that we haven’t covered about your own journey or surrogacy in particular that you’re like, oh,

24:09
sure we mention that. Yeah that’s a big question like because I could be here all night just talking about it right.

24:13
it’s my own channel otherwise. Is there anything specific you’re thinking? How long have we got? Ah how long do I want this episode to go for because I have to edit it later. Your team is just sort of you know some would there’s a saying that was around 10 years ago gold standard that used to be floated around and your team it’s just such a credit to the friendship that you guys have built it’s so genuine and ongoing and mutual and maybe it’s a bit unique maybe that’s not what everybody gets to but do you have any advice from however many years you’ve been in the community about how teams can build strong teams?

24:43
Yes, it’s about the balance of subs, right? As IPs, we initially came into it going, we’re down here and surrogates are up here, right? That was our initial thought. And then as we started to learn more in community, it’s like, we’re all just human beings at the end of it. And there’s the, need support to create our police. And then equally, surrogates aren’t being forced to be there, right? They want to be there as well, and they want to help create our police. So there’s this balance between the two parties or the team, essentially, where we’re all equals. And that’s how we ended up identifying who our people were.

25:13
And likewise, think Emma liked to say, like, I found my heap. And I think by that point, we’d actually serenaded two surrogates prior to this as well. And they obviously weren’t our people. And, you know, one of them disappeared. That’s fine. Just, think, backed out and completely ghosted us, And the other one we realized wasn’t a map for us. So we were like, let’s start a…

25:32
the business again. I think going in, because obviously with IP, you go in there’s like 1000 and 10 and four surrogates, know, it’s like, you know, how do you get it? How do you get ahead of everybody else? Because it’s not you take a ticket, right? And then you’re next. So I think for us, we needed to go through that at the time in the community, like that must have been as part of a year, I reckon, nine months, maybe 10 months, 11 months, something like that, to really understand who we are, we wanted and what we wanted our team to look like, and not just go our first off, oh my God, let’s go like, so it had to be right for us. Now that’s a big

26:02
risk as a Nintendo bank because if it doesn’t work and that might be your only chance then you may never actually um and I think that actually made a stronger pull as a tit has asked as color as Malo herself going into this and it also then maybe shone a different light on us completely um compared to when you know you’re going in initially going you know you’re going to a circus just how great is that you know and then you sort of change your own narrative order so I think understanding where we’re to be and

26:25
was important to us, our values out of all of this and then finding some good, which is even like going, you know, this number of IPs, this number of surrogates and then going and the values have to be aligned as well. like it’s the tiny little scrape across the top as what we were giving ourselves.

26:39
chance to find. I’m site trading here but I’m loving this and some of the posts I’m doing on socials now are like in terms of advice I give to you know how to find IPs you know I’m in the single world again and dating and I’m finding there are so many parallels about me potentially finding a partner versus finding a surrogate and I’m loving what you’re saying there about you know it’s actually now not just about this and this could be about me finding a partner are you finding a surrogate just about finding any partner.

27:01
any surrogate, it’s actually the values have to align. So you start to go, what are my, what’s my worth here and what do I actually want out of this? It’s not just saying yes to any offer. It’s about, want to be able to be myself authentically as an IP or a single person. And so therefore, but sometimes you have to learn that through being around or watching other teams going, Oh, I perhaps wouldn’t have done it like that. Or what didn’t feel right about that. And maybe you’re right. Maybe that made you more appealing or the energy that you were putting out was it’s like, these guys know who they are and what they want and how they

27:31
want to run this journey, it’s worked out well for you in the end. Yeah, no, exactly. And I think one of the key things was when M found us, she was like looking for someone in the same state. So she was in W at the time, we were in Queensland, but moved up New South Wales during COVID, right? So our plan was to go back to Sydney. And then M sort of found us and was planning to move Queensland and was like, we were chatting and it’s like, I only want to do it with OPs in the same state. So she was very clear in her requirements and her values were very clear as well. And so obviously that was part of the reason why we didn’t even

27:59
Sydney and that’s a good thing like because we love it up here for ourselves not for us because we actually jib in Queensland. So that kind of line aligned as well and also because for us one of our values was like we wanted to be part of our families lives and the identity of our children as well and the creation of them and family because they we want really want them to have relationship that you spoke about you know relationship you want your surrogate ongoing you have a different kind of relationship go overseas versus stay in Australia and for us that was super important.

28:28
showing that photo with the two girls holding our pen, Elodie’s hand, walking. That’s exactly why I took that photo because I love seeing them play and I’ve got lots of cute photos of them just me standing in the doorway of the playroom and they’re just like, because that’s what I want to see and that’s the bit that I love seeing out of our team. But yes, so think the values is hugely important.

28:47
what your values are, you stick to them because you shouldn’t have some values. If you did, that happens obviously. Someone might tell you, hey, you can change your values, but like, and then he’s finding your people and that’s exactly what we did. And like you said, like we work together, well, so we’re all in business together. So we chat multiple times a day or that, and we’re still working the balance. Cause that’s been like six months. We’re still working the balance as to, you know, when do we stop talking about work? And we actually start enjoying our chip as well. So we actually had a conversation about it a week or so ago going, hey, Em was like, we just need to spend time and knock about like totally great, totally get it.

29:17
we’re always to that.

29:19
So yeah, now start to spend time doing things as a family, all of us as a family. not staying away. Where we get to enjoy each other’s time out as well. So, it’s not, we don’t have to be super disciplined to do it. We just had to call it and go, right, let’s move on with the next phase of ownership. You’ve really created that village, that family together, as we like to say. Well, I might finish up with one more. As we know, the Australian Law Reform Commissioner in the middle of an inquiry. And so there are some changes coming and we’re all pretty sure it’s going to go to a compensated model. that, so at some point in time, Sarah,

29:49
will get paid. Either have you got any thoughts about how much a surrogate should get paid or what that might do to the landscape to surrogacy if we go to that model? Any shifts that you can see happening? Yeah so I don’t have an idea surrogates should get paid right. I don’t know whether it’s know two grand, twenty grand, two hundred grand. I don’t know what a compensation model means right in terms of like there’s meant to be some compensation for the toll it takes on your body things like that. So I get that. Well I don’t know how we put a number on anyway.

30:16
whatever that be, it’s like, but it won’t be so I don’t ever think if it happens, it will be so ridiculous. But it may also then allow more surrogates to go or more women to go and go hey.

30:25
consider

30:55
to see till I get it why I compensated.

30:58
world will support those marines. And also, like, it’s bringing people in for the right reasons. So yes, it’s still going to be interesting. So will that mean that someone will see this as an opportunity? A few extra dollars may prop up because it’s not like a hundred grand. They’re probably like, nah, you know, I mean, you would know more than I would. But then at the same time, I think it will take a shift in terms of community as well as to how we perceive surrogacy going forward. You know, we’ve got to, we’ve been very struck for the last 15 plus years in terms what it looks like. And we’ve created a community around this.

31:28
here because prior to that there was none of this. I think there’ll be a shift in the way connections will happen, certain things will open up around and yeah certain things will sort of open up on opportunities for surrogates, equally for IPs, but then again a lot of intend to do it in Australia is often because when we spoke about the 30 to 90 or as on average like their five hours journey, so that would then mean it will carve out some tents within the Australian committee as well because there’s additional that they can’t.

31:55
It would be interesting to see the shift on some of those things as well and how that affects, know, Tender Parenthood in Australia, that affects potential surrogates who never thought there would be women, sorry, who would be potential surrogates, and also the community as well, how it may shift a pivot around the world. would be interesting.

32:10
Because it’s certainly a middle class luxury in some ways to do, sorry, see, it’s not for everybody. And that’s in Australia, let alone, you know, if you’re going to America, 200, 250,000. But there’s, I wonder if there’s some sense of entitlement. If you’re like, whatever, what other service in your life do you pay $100,000 for? You usually get a lot of say in how that’s spent. And so this sense that, you know, I’m wondering with SAS that we run, know, essentially having a third party or other third parties might start up to have escrow accounts to help manage some of this money. It’s sort of like, well, if I’m

32:38
paying this much money in compensation, do I get a bit of say over how it gets used and run and therefore, but surrogates safeguarding them as well to keep autonomy? Yeah, I wonder if any segregations might happen a little bit more with IPs and surrogates. Yeah, it might be interesting how our Zoom monthly communities might shift or what conversations might shift, but I’d like to think that we will continue them and hopefully help to remind everybody about that community village aspect that has something that we’re really proud of that we’ve built up together.

33:08
and hope it continues. think there will always be a need to keep working together and learn together because you work from a textbook or a book or you know just having a one conversation so you know who did it right so and this

33:18
aspect is phenomenal. I often talk about building pro-communities and that’s essentially what we did. We’ve got a few people in our circle who we rely on and lean on throughout our journeys and even as parents talk about their parenting stuff as well. that’s our own little community within the broader Australian Zoroastrian community as well. So yeah, it’d be interesting to see what that looks like as well.

33:42
You’re definitely part of my micro community. You certainly helped me out here with this webinar tonight. And I think that’s it. It’s actually also for the children that are born from surrogacy that if we can make communities, therefore they can grow up knowing other families like with two dads or other families. If you’re a mum and a dad, but you grew in some other lady’s tummy that by us providing that community, it’s actually helping the children stay connected.

34:05
Absolutely, and that’s very true and that’s super important for us. I we’re done my friend, I think that’s a lovely spot to end. You’re right, it’s super important to us and if we build up these micro communities as Nikita would say, it’s about scattering the seeds and it’s about believing in that you are planting, I think this is possibly from the musical Hamilton or something else, but it’s about planting seeds in a garden for trees that you will not sit under the shade of. Other people will benefit from the shade of those trees but you and I, Alex and Carlo and the people that we gravitate towards,

34:34
believe in that and it’s a slow process and we might get beaten down by other winds and howls and earthquakes but we believe in it so we keep doing.

34:43
Done, wonderful. There you go. So look at the chat going off there. We’ve taught them how to do it. But thank you everybody. Lots coming on Friday I can see. Thank you Alex. Great session. Nikita. Yes, she’s so proud of your team. There you go. The Queenslanders. Yeah Queensland. Yes, go Queensland. And yeah, go on. What you’re going to ask me is there one more last thing to share? Would you like to share one Yes, because I always say this and it’s like, regardless of whatever your journey is, like or however long the process is to get to the point of getting to the point of maybe just have fun along the way because it’s

35:13
big massive serious thing at the same time but enjoy the process as well that you get to go through because this is a super unique experience as well. So we’ve tried to enjoy the every step of process and seeing the positives and everything that we’ve done even though there have been some bad sad times you know like you know first Emry didn’t transfer you know so didn’t stick so it was a sad time but we always try and see the positives and you know we’re two children in we’re still coming to the ZZZ and we love it and we enjoy it and it’s a lot of fun and because everyone’s got a lot of great fun as well that’s my fun. Spot on people this is a good one to come to.

35:43
So glad so many were here. You pulled in some good numbers too, so thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. On our YouTube channel, you will find many other episodes as well as the images mentioned in this webinar. If you’re looking for more resources, check out the show notes for this episode and consider joining us for one of our webinars so you can have your questions answered on the spot. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time.

36:12
Welcome to the village.