Episode 128 – Beth – surrogate

00:14
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie and my aim is to raise the level of awareness of surrogacy through these conversations. This podcast is a recording from a webinar that I host and you can find more details about those and upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org. The webinars are free, go for an hour and we’ll take you through how surrogacy works in Australia. You can ask questions, typing them in anonymously if you prefer.

00:42
and you hear from a co-host who has navigated surrogacy in Australia, either a surrogate, a gay dad, or a straight mum. This episode from the archives, recorded in February 2022, features Beth. Beth birthed as a surrogate in Melbourne, Victoria in December 2021 for a couple who were initially strangers and are now lifelong friends. They had a little girl, London, and her two dads are Tyson and Daniel, who also live in Melbourne. Beth has been a surrogate mentor within SAS,

01:11
Surrogacy Australia’s support service and is one of the first surrogates to have been through SASS as a team, to have been paired up with a mentor for her and then to become a mentor herself. You can hear from one of the dads she carried for, Tyson, in episode two of this podcast series. Beth has become a very close friend of mine over the years, a sorrow sister. The next episode you’ll hear, number 129, is also Beth, where she was co-host on the webinar series again.

01:39
and that time discussing her second journey. That’s the first co-host I’ve had on twice and it was exciting to share that milestone with Beth. She went on to carry a sibling for Tyson and Dan and they had a little boy, River, in November, 2024, about three years later. I hope you enjoy this episode.

01:57
Here we are. We’re going to share some photos of what your story looks like and hear a bit about your journey. Just to start it off. So Beth’s team is a SASS team. So Tyson and Dan are the dads here. They birthed, as I said at the beginning, about three months ago, nearly. Almost. So yeah, first of next month will be three months. Yes. And so obviously there’s quite a bit in the journey to get us up to the point of pregnancy and birth. And so just talk us through these photos that we’ve got here, Beth. These are your lads. Yeah.

02:27
Tyson and Dan and my two boys. So we went out for dinner for one of their birthdays quite early on in the journey. Yeah. And so it’s been about building that connection with your two. Absolutely. 100%. Your two sons and your two dads here. Yeah, absolutely. And I’ll point out, actually in their house at the moment. Yeah. Who’s happily ever after? This is London’s nursery. I’m not planning any more baby.

02:51
And so to support that, you know, better internet there, the dads are looking after your two lads and their daughter. Correct. Yes. This is your modern family. This is my modern family. Absolutely. Yes. Obviously terminology is quite big in the community and I like to say I’m a very proud auntie and the boys when I was carrying and again, that’s another question people have is how did kids respond? But my kids were very open at school, letting everyone know that it was not a brother or sister. It was a cousin. that I was carrying. Yeah. Yeah. I think my kids, we had tummy cousin perhaps.

03:21
some of the language there so that they understand that. And so introducing them to friends and family on each side and so was this one of those catch-ups? Yeah kind of. Dana Tyson down the end and that’s Matt and Seb. So I actually met that couple through Dana Tyson and I actually went on to create, I became an egg donor for them in 2020 I think and we created Embryos together. Yeah. Have they gone on to have a sorority journey yet? Not yet. They have, yeah COVID obviously kind of put a lot of journeys, bit of bump in the road so they’re concentrating on some other things.

03:51
at the moment, but I’m really hoping nudge nudge that they’ll make another little cousin for me soon. Absolutely. And so yeah, there’s an example of so London that you carried is not genetically connected to you, part of her birth story and her creation story. And so these dads too, when they have a baby and that’s your egg and your boys are connected. So it’s really important that these people were connected. Absolutely. And it was important for me and everybody has different needs and different non-negotiables when they come into this. But for me, it was about creating that family and um

04:21
making sure that we had the foundations to continue that life.

04:25
Yeah, that’s beautiful. And so you clearly spend a lot of time together to get that point. So like, how do ever get to that point of knowing, yes, we’ve done the foundations? um Well, I have to say you were amazing. And there’s a list of activities that you recommend that teams do together. We went back to front. I think the last one is getting drunk together and we decided to start there. But I did actually move house twice during lockdown. So they were very helpful once before I was pregnant once when I was actually carrying their daughter. um But I also, I’m a little bit like you.

04:55
And I kept a diary. So it’s recommended that you spend a hundred hours getting to know someone, you know, that analogy of being stuck on a bus, a really long bus drive, and you want to make sure that you’ve got that friendship before you add hormones. Yeah. Yeah. We spent a long time and I, they didn’t know it at the time, but I journaled all of our entries and our hours. And I had, you know, a separate list for the hours that we spent together alone and time that they spent with the boys. The really important part for me was feeling confident, asking them to look after my kid. And it’s that.

05:24
of you know if they’re gonna trust me to carry their child I probably need to be in a place where I trust them to look after mine. And that was really important to us too and I remember getting to the point where the lads could take our car with the car seats and drive them to a park or the movies. Did the lads do that Tyson and Dan? Like they took your kids out to places? Absolutely yeah they’ve taken them out they’ve come over to look after them at home they’ve taken them out without me um so earlier when we dropped by so that I could steal their internet.

05:52
uh Um, one of the guys took the kids for a walk with the dog and the other one stayed behind to feed London’s. feel like, you know, I said to someone the other day when I visited London, that I feel like seeing her now, like I would if anybody, any of my friends had a child. It’s like, it’s this beautiful sort of feeling of connection, but it’s, it’s a whole picture. It’s not just me and the baby or them and me and the baby. It’s all of us. Yeah. Um, we could unpack that a lot more. Any surrogates listening would be like thinking of like.

06:18
Wow, how do we get to that point of being that comfortable? Like that’s going to take time, isn’t it? So I might come back and ask you a more about that. So here we have a pregnant photo. So I know your team was, you’ve been in Melbourne in 2021 had some intense lockdowns. So you didn’t necessarily have as much in-person time together. So this photo was, there’s one photo. Yes. Yeah. We actually were given permission by PRP in 2020 to go ahead and transfer. And that was right in the middle of hard lockdown. I actually did PRP from the Royalty Hospital because my son had a major

06:48
surgery. Yeah. So we were really fortunate that was run by zoom at that point. So we were given permission to go ahead and we sort of looked at everything and went, Oh, you know, we’ll wait. We’ll make sure that everything’s sort of better. 2021 had other plans, but that’s okay. We did get through. So yeah, we did plan. mean, the boys missed out on a baby shower and yeah, there were some things that we didn’t get to do, but we made the best of it. We had lots of zoom dates and when we could, caught up for dinner. And one of the things that I recommend for interstate teams as well is that I had the belly button. So the boys would record stories and then I’d pop that on my belly at night.

07:18
when we were watching TV and so that was, you know, in a way replacing where I would have been spending time with the dads. was, you know, she was still able to hear their voice. Yeah, those connections are very important. And then here we go. When you look at this photo, tell us about it. oh Now I’ve got goosebumps. So Miss London likes to make an entrance. She was 15 days late. I suppose that’s still within the realm, but right at the end, um A little bit too far. A little bit too far. Look, I went

07:48
40 and six, so six days overdue with my first. So when we hit a week overdue with London, I was like, oh, this is the most pregnant I’ve ever been. And then we went two days more and I was like, guys, do wanna have a chat to your daughter? um

07:59
Eviction. Yeah, we had some complications post-birth but and it’s funny what you saying earlier about not being able to look at your photo. There was a good few weeks where I couldn’t look at this photo because… you knew what came after. Yeah, when she was born it was everything I’d ever hoped for, everything I’d ever dreamed of. It was probably one of the most magical moments of my life. We were actually lucky enough to enjoy about 20 minutes of that before everything sort of went south. Yeah, not long. No, no, not what we planned but that’s okay. So she needed a little bit of help there. Um no, I did. Oh you, that’s right.

08:29
So you didn’t get the chance to enjoy and watch and just… We didn’t, we decided not to have a birth chart. So we were thinking about one, but then when we were in and out of lockdowns, um mean Melbourne was pretty harsh. Some surrogates couldn’t even get to support people and it was only one, which meant they had the horrible choice between partner or parent. I was lucky enough to have both of the guys in there. And so at that point I just went, let’s ask the midwife to take some photos because I felt like it was more important for me for them to be there. Yes. And that’s it. It’s just having someone allocated. They know that that’s important to take.

08:59
And it doesn’t matter if it’s just on a phone, but it’s just no having them especially with phones these days No, we had it in our birth plan and particularly because they were monitoring me and they sort of hit the point where they were like Okay, if you’re gonna do a handover what photos now is probably a good time So we were actually able to capture some really beautiful moments Yes that beautiful and it’s lovely to hear that you can look back on these now and go because she’s been fine and you’re fine now Yeah, it’s a fascinating part of the healing isn’t it? It is isn’t it and it’s so funny because it’s not something that you have. I mean obviously

09:29
like you I had PND with both my children so that was something I needed to be aware of coming into this. But there’s often a gap where you just kind of need to sort yourself out before you figure out how bubs fits into the picture as well. Yes, yeah it’s fascinating. I think I’m still working it out a year and a Oh honey me too. Ask me on the day it just depends. Yeah absolutely. And so here you are with the three babies you’ve carried in birth. Yes. And your lads meeting here. I can see some big smiles on their faces there. Oh look you know the pregnancy was tough on us mainly because we were

09:59
lockdown. So I always planned on adding the pregnancy to my busy life and then that kind of became everything that we were doing because my kids were disinflating, I was heavily pregnant, I then caught COVID when I was 34 weeks. Yeah we had a fun trot, been a time, but I think for them when she was born because she had she did need help.

10:19
a couple of days later, so she was in hospital five days, and being able for her to come home and for them to see it and you know even little things like she’d be fussing a bit and they’d speak and she’d be, I swear she’d recognise their voices. Yeah. And they were really able to bond with her and separate the crazy crying emotional person I had become in lockdown, which had probably more to do with lockdown than pregnancy. Bit of both. How did it? They were able to separate that and see her in her environment with the dads and…

10:47
Can I just say any future boyfriends? have to go through my boys first. Done. Yep. Yep. Got to get their approval. So Miss London, she’s the apple of their eye. Oh God. Yeah. And then it was, we go see London? Can we go see London? And I was like, what am I? A chopliver? A mum here. Yeah. So I know, yeah, that’s really important. And so sorry, it’s listening that your kids will come along for this ride. So if you think you’re going to distance yourself from them, it doesn’t happen. And you need to be vulnerable and let that happen because it can be beautiful. But that’s again, why you need that trust there.

11:17
Absolutely and I think that there’s definitely something to be said. mean I know that I felt and it’s funny talking about the surrogates there’s often a lot of guilt whether it’s spending our pays money whether it’s how many transfers it takes we are

11:27
constantly kind of going is this my fault? There were days when I didn’t feel like I was being my best mum to my kids and I felt really guilty about that. But once London was born, once we were out of lockdown, I’ve made up for it in so many ways and I no longer feel that guilt. Yes. I think Sarika’s like, I’ll just take a few weeks off work, but we would say take all the leave you can. Yeah. I was that, I was that woman. And then we spoke and I was like, oh, you know what? Yeah. I kind of just had a human exit me. I think I might take some

11:56
Yes. And so one, like being a teacher, I got very generous maternity leave, but you know, the one time in your life, you’re going to have paid leave and you don’t have a baby to look after and you get the government paid parental leave too. you meet the work test, so do the IPs take it because you’re, know, as Katrina talks about the head, heart hormones, your body is recovering your head and your heart know where baby is, but your body is a bit confused and you just need. And look, I’m a personal trainer and you know, I don’t train until they, you know,

12:22
women get a six-week clearance from their physio. And for me not having London, I forgot that a lot because I’d go lift something. I’d be like, oh, why can’t I lift this? it’s like, regardless of whether you’re looking after a newborn, yes, definitely one of the hardest parts because they’re waking up, they’re constantly feeding, it’s constantly changing. You still just carried and birthed a human and birth of any form, particularly caesarean can be a lot harder. You know, you have to take that time and take that grace for yourself and understand that you’re still going to have the physical consequences of it. Yes, absolutely. And this, as it adjusts,

12:52
to hormones as well that’s the physical and then the hormones where your body’s searching for a baby that it doesn’t know where it is. like the word use the word grace there, be graceful to yourself give yourself permission. It’s not being greedy it’s no that’s part of your payment is recovery time I think. So there we go there’s the dads you know you created those photos right that’s them at the zoo having catch-ups and you must be lovely to see those photos come through. It is and it’s funny because you know I get photos sometimes like you were saying about the grandparents and I get photos

13:22
sometimes with the grandparents and the cousins and I’m friends with one of the dad’s sister on Facebook and I see because she had a baby about six months old and so I see the cousins hanging out and I’m just like you know we often talk about how it takes a village to raise a child and in surrogacy it can take a village to make a child but the flow and effect of that is that you haven’t just made parents you’ve made grandparents and aunts and uncles and cousins and yeah it’s something really special. And I think it’s important to know them too so your joy is amplified by that was that was probably

13:52
of the things I had to grieve being in lockdown because there was once that I saw one of the boys mom before London was born and I was able because she was kicking and I was like oh do you want to feel and she was like oh okay and for me it was really important being a local team so that I was accessible to not just the parents but everybody else and yeah that was a really special moment because you know it just is. As their grandchild in there I had that too and being able to put her hand on your belly yeah it’s those moments isn’t it yeah yeah lots of valuable things for people

14:22
listening here tonight I reckon. I have to say I look way more black than they are.

14:27
That’s good. was like, ah washing basket, there you go. Well they weren’t pregnant so they they didn’t have to do that. That’s true yeah. We did actually have a very fun night where we um strapped some watermelons and some samples onto the boys and they got to do walking up and down stairs and getting on and off the couch and rolling over in bed and I was like no no no you don’t use your hands you just roll. Yes right yeah putting your shoes on and all of that stuff. Oh yeah. know right. So well let’s get into some questions here because we’ve talked about the importance of spending time getting to know

14:57
each other. Do you remember the length of time from when you first initiated conversation with the boys up until first pregnancy attempts? actually looked this up in preparation for this because I was like 10 years ago, five years ago, COVID everything’s become a blur. So I originally posted in the ASC, which is our Facebook group on the 3rd of July in 2019. Dan responded to that and we started chatting 27th of December. So December 2019 at the same year I made my official offer. we did, we got

15:27
each other a little bit and then I said you know I’d like to get to know you so it’s what’s called sorry dating where you kind of go steady or go exclusive and I just sort of said to the guys I don’t love you.

15:36
anyone else, but I feel like we have a real connection. Do you want to sort of see how this goes? Which was interesting because when I first connected with them online, it was actually about going to a Melbourne meetup, which I highly recommend for everyone. Um, and I was at the point, I was with Seth at that point and I had said, I don’t want any profiles. I don’t want to do anything. I’m just doing my research right now. I want to know everything before I kind of took my hand in the ring. And when we were getting to know each other, it just literally one thing led to another. It is, it’s like love, isn’t it? Yeah, it is. Yeah, very much so. And as you said, so for those listening, yes, so Beth had joined Seth.

16:06
and Tyson and Dan had joined SASS and they met each other independent of SASS but then they still decided to stay on with a SASS team. Why did you stay on as a SASS team? I think that there are lots of reasons. There’s not one kind of group or system that you stay with through the whole pregnancy. You might have your GP all the way through but you go through IVF and then you finish up with the IVF clinic and then you’re pregnant and they’re like great have fun off you go and you’re like what now? If you’re doing PRP in Victoria that’s a lot. um

16:36
I didn’t handle any of that because I suck at admin, but by the end of it, I think we had an 88 page document. Having a mentor was great for me in particular. Having someone who’s already walked that path and who, you know, there are a lot of things that because I had conceived my boys the old fashioned way.

16:51
There was a lot that I had no idea about. Um, I hadn’t done egg donation at that point and you know, being able to check in with someone who’s done it before and going, I feel really strange telling five people that I’ve just started my cycle. Like I’m emailing these receptionists going, my cycle started today. Like for me, that was an unknown. Yeah. So many people interested in your cycle and so many men interested in it. So many men involved.

17:13
things there. So it was really good for us to have that continuity all the way through and know that we had people that we could talk to that had done it before. And the other thing is to that, although we have a really great team, a solid team and great communication, like I was saying earlier, I feel like Sarah gets filled with guilt, probably for the wrong thing sometimes, but not having to go, is it okay if I get dinner tonight because I’ve been vomiting all day? You know, even post counseling, like I highly recommend post counseling as you suggested, because if I’m having really bad day, message the boys and I’m like, I’m sad. Can I see you? And they’re like, yeah, cool.

17:43
don’t forget you’ve got those sessions. So it’s almost like it takes a lot of that financial part out of the conversation so that I don’t feel guilty and it’s not like sometimes it can feel a bit gross because like you said we’re altruistic we don’t do this for money we do it for love and if you’re asking for money it feels like you’re asking to be paid. Good point and and because talking money makes it awkward and yucky. Yes.

18:05
And that’s what I see. financial. It is. And that’s transactional. that’s part of the reason for SASS in my opinion is that let us do the transactional financial awkward conversation so that you guys can just focus on the friendship. So we facilitate the cost of that ongoing counseling and the discussion with them. so because you’ve accessed counseling during your pregnancy and post-birth. Yep.

18:25
I accessed a lot of it during COVID. Just knowing that, like I’ve spoken to you before, I’m like, hey, I think I’m having a bit of a rough week and knowing that I don’t have to go to the boys and go, oh, I need this amount of dollars because my mental health is worth it. And it’s like, I know it is, but it feels like I’m asking for money if I have to have that conversation. Absolutely. And I think again, when we modeled SASS off what a group, Surrogacy UK do, it was that because it’s pre-paid, you feel less guilt too, because you’re like, well, the boys have already paid for it. So it’s now not a new

18:55
cost. It’s already been paid for. So I’m not costing them anymore. Yeah. Yeah. But even that, and I think that there needs to be hard conversations because I love my boys. really do. But there was one point, I think it was mentioned that, you know, anything over $200 should, should be not asked for, but just noted so that they could make sure that the balance is up to date. And I was like, I’m not buying Gucci shoes. I’ll peg them. And I’m in lockdown. Yeah. I was like, no.

19:20
That’s fine. Maybe I will buy the Gucci shoes. Yes. So much trust there, isn’t there? Yeah. Lovely. Thank you for that. Let’s see some of these questions that we’ve got here. Thank you guys for typing them in. That’s wonderful to hear your thoughts. So first question here, someone says, I’ve done counseling for egg donation with same clinic and same IPs. Would we still need to do it to be a surrogate for IPs? You’ve been in this boat, although not using said eggs from donation attempts. Yes, you will need to do separate. So with egg donation, there’s three sessions. So one for the donor, one for the IPs and then one together. With surrogacy, it’s

19:50
a little bit more in depth than that, but I think it’s definitely worthwhile doing. Yeah, because you do talk about different implications. Yes. So it is, yeah. And although egg donation, you have the genetic connection for life. It’s a small project and it’s longer long-term surrogacy is a more enormous project. Yes. No genetic connection. So yes. So sorry, anonymous. You will have to do some separate counseling on that one, but you may already have a relationship established with the counselor. So there’s be a bit less getting to know you types of conversations. I might try this one. Is there any info for ACT?

20:19
read the birth certificate. I’m not quite sure your specific question there anonymous. The birth certificate that works the same pretty much across Australia. The surrogate will go on the first one and then that’s transferred later on. So then you have parent one, parent two, you can have two dads on your birth certificate these days. It’s really common for surrogates and IPs listening to be nervous about this part of surrogacy when you’re first learning. It’s really okay if you’re nervous about it. But once you’ve been in the community for a while and talk to other people who have done it and say, yep, yep, we were nervous at the beginning too, it’s okay. uh

20:49
It does come down to trust. not sure if I’ve fully answered your question there. Feel free to come back and type something in if you need it clarified a little bit more there. Another question here, how did you deal with people’s negative reactions to carrying a baby that’s not going to be yours? Did you have any in your workplace or among friends and family? think that depends on your personality type, be totally honest. Not so much negative. I honestly find that people, and I was exactly the same three years ago. I had no idea that the souring scene Australia was legal at all. You get some pretty interesting questions and pretty personal questions given that we’re both gay.

21:19
but that for opposite teams? No. um Yeah, no. uh How much were you paid? um You’re not getting paid. Why would you do that? I find the most interesting response is generally when you’re like, oh, this is what I’m doing. And people go, oh, I could never do that. And my favorite response to that is nobody’s asking you to, but that’s my personality type. Me too.

21:40
think with negativity, it’s good to look at the why and where they’re coming from. have they had a history of, you know, difficulty trying? Have they gone without children in their life? I think you need to look at the why and sort of go from there. If you meet it with curiosity. And I think that’s why I wanted to start these webinars, because I felt like I was at the beginning for so long because I had IPs that didn’t work out with us. I was stuck at the beginning. And so I remember what it’s like to have all your beginning questions. And sometimes in the Facebook groups, you get shot down for asking those questions. So for the anonymous person asking there, you have to remember that by

22:11
time particularly you’re pregnant you know so much about surrogacy in comparison to the other person you might not think you know a lot because you’ve only done it

22:18
once. It turns out you do know a lot, but the people that are asking this, you may be the first person they’ve ever met that’s doing. And so they, you know, hopefully those questions don’t come with too much judgment, but they’re, they’re, they’re beginner curious questions. So it’s a bit like the TV show. can’t ask that, you know, all of the different, you know, groups of people that go on there, I guess be prepared, maybe even prepare out some answers. It’s okay to have limits on which questions you can answer or not. And just, you know,

22:44
Be prepared. And I think getting to other surrogates to what they would say, if you’ve got a peer like that, that you could ask. Yeah. I this is where the mentors from SASS come in handy. I think that surrogacy is one of those controversial things, much like sexuality or diet, like veganism versus keto or religion. And I think that if someone is coming at you with anger, then you’re not going to ever win. Whereas if someone is actually coming at you with questions, then you never know where that may lead. I actually had um some workmen in my house.

23:14
I was pregnant there were some questions there and it came out that there was actually family friends that had been trying and didn’t know what to do and I directed them towards you know our things and yeah it’s just you because you brought hope to them and information but often shot

23:29
can be covering something else, whether that’s, you know, oh, I didn’t know this was a thing. Why didn’t you know, like I could do that. Yes. Yes. That’s true. You never know where the conversation might lead. So cool. Well, we’ve got four more. reckon we’ll, Oh no, the last one says, thank you for the answers and good responses. Do try and remember that. Excellent for SASS people, these webinars, the recordings get saved into the portal. Um, or I email them out in my monthly newsletter. So if you’re in with us, then you can get access to this recording if you ever wanted that. So we’ve got three more here to finish our night off. So Julia,

23:59
How best to maintain a meaningful and satisfying relationship with all team members at all stages of the process when there is distance and face-to-face activities might be a rarity? How do you maintain that? I think that’s something that needs to be discussed as a team. uh One of the things that I found really interesting about SASS was the love language profiling. I think that depending on how you receive love and how you give love, that can be navigated. But I think that needs to be one of those really honest conversations. And I think that both surrogates and IPs need to have some non-negotiables and need to know the app.

24:29
absolute bare minimum that they need.

24:32
don’t match, then don’t try forcing that because you’ll only end up with heartbreak later on. So you either might not be a good match or you might need to work on it. If you love languages, if you don’t speak in the same language, correct. And this is why you date, start. Yes, yes. And when you say face to face activities, that could be in person or here in Victoria, we got really good at zoom. There are lots of online things. If you’re talking about a different time zone, I mean, that just really depends on your lifestyle. Some people are up early, some people are late. I think if the team is strong and you have

25:03
you’ve sorted that out beforehand. I’m a big tech stuff. I won’t often phone call my friends because I might be busy or how you communicate really comes down to you as a team and individual. Yeah, and it’s about finding what works and sometimes different people in the team might be good at the logistics and the team, like the planning and some of the relationships and the warm fuzzy check-in. oh

25:24
Yeah, and it’s okay to have that allocated out to different people. but having everybody. so I hope we have those conversations and just be on the same page. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s when if you’re feeling you’re not on the same page, that’s when it’s great to have a peer or a mentor that you can go, is this a massive problem and we won’t make a good team or are there some ways we could work through this? Yeah. One of the things that we actually discussed early on was social media because I’m not a massive social media person. And obviously these days that’s a huge part of pregnancy and birth announcements and everything else.

25:53
And so for us, was about, you know, like my Facebook is quite private and that’s my friends and that’s where I showed my kids. Whereas on my Instagram, that’s my work. So I don’t. And so we had that agreement that they would share things to Facebook and tag me, but on my Instagram, I follow them.

26:07
they don’t tag me. So that’s really about that balance of kind of going, what are your needs? What are my needs? And can we meet them together? Definitely. And being upfront about those things, adjusting if they need to. Adam asks, so Beth, was there something physical or some sort of specific support you had during your pregnancy that stood out to be really beneficial? um This is a tough one because we had lockdown. So the plan for us was that I would be going to prenatal Pilates. I had acupuncture, which I was able to continue on and off.

26:37
during the pregnancy depending on lockdown status. I’m a single parent so things that were important to me were things like helping with the grocery shopping, helping with the, well the plan was helping with the pick up but sometimes honestly it was just the boys having my kids which we were able to do because of the surrogacy situation. Sometimes it was just getting my kids out of the house for a few hours so that I could just…

26:57
sit in silence because we were constantly in each other’s pockets and I was pregnant and I was hormonal. yeah. Yeah. And so you might have a plan then COVID might come into place. think what I’m hearing Beth saying is a lot of it was time that you can’t physically carry the burden. can’t physically baby. It’s spending time with our kids, taking them off our hands.

27:20
But even showing that you love our kids, that you’re loving on them, and then our kids are happy, then we’re happy. Yes, exactly. And I think that’s really important. And like I was saying before, I felt guilty about not being the best mother that I could be at the time. Knowing that I had someone to help me pick up that slack, particularly as a single parent, was everything. Even like when we hit, when we got diagnosed with COVID, like the boys organized Lego deliveries and stuff. I never felt like I was alone, even though we in isolation. I know that sounds ridiculous, but that’s how I felt. Yeah. That’s beautiful to hear. Well done, Tysia.

27:50
and then you didn’t. And I guess Adam, like I could talk forever about this type of support, but also maybe ask other women that have been pregnant what they needed. You know, like don’t just cook meals because their kids might not like them. my kids are so fussy. 100%. So it’s either buy HelloFresh vouchers or Uber vouchers. And sometimes by the voucher, don’t just say put it on the card. We feel guilty when we do it. Pre-pay the voucher or find out what meals they want the exact recipe. And that’s what I did to the boys. They preferred to be bossed around and said, make pumpkin soup, make this batch of

28:19
date balls, just do this and they did it and then they like well then we know we’re getting it right. and that was one of the things with the guys that when they cook they’d be like okay what do the kids want, what will the kids eat and that was so huge for me because you know particularly if you haven’t had kids before there’s obviously like kids can be really lovely and really difficult. So we have them and hand them over.

28:41
Yes, exactly. That’s why our biggest issue is knowing that that child is not going to stay with us. Yeah, so ask, just communicate. And again, I think all of this comes down to communication. All of it comes down to if you don’t know, ask. There’s never a silly question. I know for me, I enjoyed having a cleaner, like that was really important to me post-birth and when I was able to the last week, few weeks of pregnancy, not because I don’t love the guys, but you know, I didn’t feel comfortable asking them to clean. But when they offered off their own back going, okay, we’re going to book you a cleaner. I was like, oh my God, thank God. I didn’t even realize how much I needed that. Good. Yeah. And see

29:11
So those practical supports and and IPs we hate it when IP say let us know if you need any help Because surrogates are terrible at asking. Yes. Yes The whole point is that we are trying to do something nice for you And I feel like a lot of the time I was like, but if I ask them to do this, isn’t that taking away from the gift in reflection? No, it’s not but that’s how we feel and we do and so you’ve got to start naming We are going to cook your meal. What night of is Monday Tuesday? Yes

29:36
Name the specifics. So, and again, asking other pregnant people that have been pregnant is good support. I think we’ve almost tied that in with, is it Alison’s question as well there on ideas on ways to practically support your surrogate and how to work this out, childcare support, meals, cleaning? 100%. I mean, even if they’re in a partnership, I would say a cleaner is recommended because it’s just one of those things where I got too big, like she was late. I got too big to clean the shower. I couldn’t actually get down and get back up without hauling myself around. And like I’m a yoga teacher, so I’m pretty good at

30:06
fitting into small spaces. I would definitely say meals and again, communicate with your sorry, but whether that’s prepping meals, whether that’s hello fresh is a great one because everything comes delivered. Whether that’s an Uber Eats card or even just I enjoy cooking. So it was just having the guys take the boys one day so that I could just make a mess in my kitchen, pack everything in the freezer and then not worry about it. Yeah. Cooking piece. That sort of stuff. Oh, a little add. See my family, we already had a cleaner and so not expected then that the IPs take on that cost because it was already a cost in our budget.

30:36
Sorry.

30:37
there’s an example of something that you then don’t milk your IPs for money because it was already something established. So in the last five weeks of my pregnancy, the lads came up here, did my grocery shopping for the week, took the list, came home, unpacked it, put it away. Oh, that was a godsend. So yeah, it’s time investment there. uh Yeah. And you won’t know that until you spend a lot of time together to see what supports they’re going to need. So this is why we say, you know, as a guide, I’d say six months before you even start the counseling and legals, you know, as a surrogate, can say to them,

31:07
Yes, I’m going to be your surrogate, but now let’s do nothing for six months except just build a friendship and then start the counseling and legals. Otherwise it’s too busy with appointments. I mean, that’s if I’m pitching a best practice model. that, would you recommend obviously? 100%. We definitely put that in and I have to say, I feel like, you know, obviously we’re early days yet, but I feel like in taking that time, you know, even when we hit counseling and I…

31:29
cannot recommend counseling highly enough when it comes to surrogacy. We went through all the lists, we asked all the hard questions and we felt really prepared going in. But it was like, even though we had done all that prep, there were still things that came up.

31:41
then we were like, okay, we didn’t picture it from that point of view sort of thing. So definitely take that time. um I think it was you or maybe it was one of Sarah Jefford’s podcasts, but it’s like about being stuck on a tour bus and how comfortable would you be with these people if you’re stuck on that tour bus for nine months? Katrina Hales, you’re stuck in a car together and you’re on a big road trip. that’s life. That is what you’re in for. You’re going to like each other and you’ve got to get to that point where the rose colored glasses fall off and you’ve seen each other daggy. And I think a good sign is if when your IPs can discipline your kids or give

32:11
them instructions or put boundaries in place go no.

32:14
You know, Ewan, I need you to come back here. I’m saying this once. When they feel comfortable to do that to your kids, that’s probably a good sign. For me, it was when they were coming over and I didn’t run around doing those last minute cleaning things and hiding stuff. That was when I was like, So can you go to each other’s house and not make it spotless? Yes, was like, guys, there’s a toothpaste on the mirror. I haven’t cleaned it yet, but like that’s what you’re in for anyway. So, yeah. So any parting words or advice to people or major learnings for yourself? Take your time.

32:45
100%. At the end of the day, it’s one of those things where if you have a timeline, then definitely you need to stick by that and potentially look at other things. Because if you are doing this in Australia, you need to take time. It is going to take effort and it’s going to take a whole lot of love. It’s not an easy thing to do, but when it’s done right, can be one of the most amazing things that I’ve ever seen. Not just for me, not just for the guys, for my kids, for their family. Considering that we met, you know, 2019, I now can’t imagine my life without these people. So take your time.

33:14
Ask the hard questions something we see a lot in the community is that when you already have that existing friendship relationship family Whatever it is. Sometimes it can be uncomfortable asking those questions Hey, what happens if you die those questions those conversations need to be had because as much as you can prepare for you know We prepared our plan for emergency cesarean of this and for that and what we didn’t plan for was that middle way that actually happened So have all those conversations have a you know, and if you can’t I’m gonna be a little bit crass here But if you can’t have those hard conversations

33:44
with someone. How can you ask to be in the room while your child exits them? But you know, and it was funny because you know obviously with Melbourne there were lots of you know yes you can be there no you can’t be there and at the start of the journey I always said you know one of my non-negotiables was having a dollar because yes I love midwives but I wanted a dollar. By the end of our journey by the time we were pregnant I went I want that IP to be holding my hand and that one over that side because that was the friendship that we had formed so I didn’t feel the need for a dollar. I was just happy with the guy. Yeah we’d done a hypnobirthing course and so five weeks and they

34:14
hands-on and I think in the further reading is a link to our photos of the birth and yeah they’re hands-on massaging my back they learnt so much about labor and birth that they were so involved so plans can change as I say what you had at the beginning and so keep talking yeah and I think what Nick has commented in here saying it’s giving I think her so much hope that I can do this for my lovely IPs and that’s what it’s about isn’t it Beth? She’s having these conversations to help other people go yeah I could do this. Yes 100 % and you can if you do the hard work if you put in

34:44
time like my kids downstairs and I have no questions that they’re behaving themselves because they would never want to you know like they they respect the guys I’m a gay single mum and my eldest son is starting to go through puberty and I was like okay when you need to start shaving that’s where you’re going because I’ve never shaved my face um no idea

35:04
at all. But I know that, you know, this is the kind of friendship, this is the kind of bond that we have now. And when I started this journey, I very much thought it was like, I was like, I want to help someone, I’ll have their baby and then I’ll run off into the sunset. And now, yeah, it’s been amazing. Wonderful. Well, it’s lovely to hear that, particularly in this fourth trimester for you to sort of these first three months close births and sort of round that out to go, it’s amazing. And it’s had darkness and

35:31
lips but when you look at that whole picture, there you are saying that. Yep, grow whatever happens in your comfort zones. Thank you for sharing your time with me for this episode. If you’re finding these episodes helpful, please share them with friends. If you’d like to see the images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel for all of the recordings. If you’re looking for more individualised support, consider joining SASS, Surrogacy Australia’s support service, so you can be connected with a mentor and also with me to help guide you on a journey.

36:00
might think of me as your Siri for surrogacy. Until next time, welcome to the village.