Episode 129 – Beth – surrogate

000:14
But if this is your first time, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series with me, your host Anna McKie. My guest on this episode was a co-host on the regular webinar series that I run. Those one-hour webinars are free and will take you through the surrogacy process in Australia. You will hear from a surrogate or parent and there are opportunities to type in your questions and we will try to answer them. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org.

00:43
This episode, recorded in November 2025, features Beth. Beth, a mum of two boys, has birthed two children as a surrogate for dads Tyson and Dan. They were initially strangers and all live in Melbourne. She birthed their daughter London in December 2021 and son River in November 2024. They have been a SASS-supported, self-matched team for their two journeys, and Beth and Dan have been mentors with SASS, helping many others who are at the beginning of their journeys.

01:12
Beth has become a very close friend of mine over the years, a surro sister, and I love how our surrogacy community, the Village, can create lifelong friends. In the previous episode, number 28, you can hear about Beth’s first journey. She’s the first guest I’ve had on the webinar podcast series as a solo person twice. I encourage you to listen to that episode first. There are so many gems of wisdom in this episode and it was hard to choose a title. Some of Beth’s other key messages were,

01:40
Going into a second journey, it was important that we did it as a new journey. IP should under promise and over deliver, hope for the best, plan for the worst. My life is so much richer. And when you get it right, the ripples flow out to the rest of your life. The first few weeks and months look very different. She was referring to how the long-term frequency amount of contact is different. Asking for your needs that feel like once. Take your time and can you hold your head high?

02:09
I hope you enjoy this episode. Beth, here we are for the second time. As I’ve mentioned, you’ve done Journey 1 before with Tyson and Dan for Miss London, and people can catch that on the previous episode on our podcast series, episode 128. This is 129. So we’re going to talk through your second journey here, the journey of River. So talk us through these photos and yeah, or tell us a little bit in the leading up to it. However you want to start.

02:33
Yeah. So my first journey when I first self-matched with the boys, one of the things that we talked about being important was family size. So I have two children and I love the idea of having siblings for a child. Obviously in the surrogacy community, IPs are often grateful just to even think about one. But it was something that I wanted to sort of discuss and we discussed that if things went well, then we might be open to it. And then if you catch my previous podcast, you’ll know that the birth did not go all that well.

03:00
suboptimal conditions as my counselor put it, but we all got through it and look, the boys were amazing. We managed a lockdown pregnancy with our friendship intact. And so when time had kind of moved on and I had worked through some of that birth trauma, it was a conversation that I kind of went, well, I’m not getting any younger. So like, let’s have a chat. These photos are actually from our second transfer. we had a chemical pregnancy with the first transfer, which I mean,

03:28
Anyone coming into this particularly as a hetero couple, infertility is, you know, their story. It’s not mine, but going through our first journey when we felt pregnant the first time. So easily, I guess I was kind of expecting that this time around. And so not having that, I really kind of looked at myself and I thought, oh my God, am I too old? Like, what am I doing differently? But this is our second transfer and we did actually fall pregnant. Congratulations. And then ultimately it was sort of three years between the births.

03:54
Two kiddos there and so I guess there were some chats happening in the lead-up while London was little and then about and then and then you had to do the counseling and legal again and PRP because you’re in Victoria and go through that whole process again. Absolutely look in the birthing room as we were doing the handover I was like do not mention this for 12 months. I don’t want to talk about it. I don’t want to think about it We’re not doing it. Yes And so that was you know a very early kind of boundary that we set going into the second journey It was really important for us that

04:24
We did it as a new journey. So anyone who’s looking for a sibling journey, even if you’re doing it with the same surrogate or with the same OPs, I think it’s really important to understand that you both have gone through life changes. So the boys had had, they had a small child, which anyone who’s had children knows that that’s a handful all on its own. My children were older. And so there were some things that were easier and some things that were harder. I was working in a different workplace. Like there were just, we had gone through so many life changes. had gone through all the trauma of lockdown in Victoria.

04:52
there’s the bingo card that you created of all the different questions. And so we agreed from the get-go that if we were going to do this again, we were going to do it start to finish. conversation, same question, same… oh

05:05
you check-ins all the way. So yeah, I think that was really beneficial for us because although there weren’t massive changes that happened, there were different supports that I needed or I didn’t need. And I think too, with the benefit of the friendship that we’d grown over that time, it was really good to just kind of sit down and actually go, you know what, this is going to be the center of our universe for a little while and that’s okay. And then we can kind of move on and go back to our friendship. That’s really valuable to hear that. Yeah, you revisited it like you were doing it from the beginning. And so we’re moving through some

05:35
photos here and so these are photos that you have provided with me that you wanted to share so tell me why have you picked these two photos? you know I just I know this girl she’s really cool so this was actually from a Victorian surrogacy catch-up dinner that a lovely woman visited

05:52
And the t-shirt, you can’t really see it the whole thing, but it says, yes, I’m pregnant. No, it’s not mine. Proud surrogate. And so I was quite ill at this point. My morning sickness had kicked in hard and we hadn’t officially announced, but we thought it might be cute to kind of just pop the t-shirt on and see who noticed. I think people started to notice right after I had dinner and then ran off bathroom.

06:12
The whole idea of going through the journey the second time and treating it like a new journey, we didn’t want to, or I’m really blessed to have IPs that are in this for the long haul or in this for the community, know, dance a mentor as well. And so they didn’t just have the baby and then disappear off into the sunset. We wanted to keep going and we will probably continue to do so for a while. It was wonderful for me to come to Melbourne and to see you that night and be part of the Melbourne village. And even though we’ve probably only met in person a few times, Beth, I’ve lost track now, but it’s just, it’s just nice.

06:42
have these ongoing friendships so thank you for including that photo of us there. And then the second photo, Miss London, it’s sort of a, it says promoted to baby, to big sister, is that right? Was that part of the reveal? Yes that was part of the reveal. So when I confirmed my pregnancy, oh our pregnancy sorry, yeah I went over and I said that I’d bought us some clothes and so I popped them in a little tutu and a little t-shirt and I was like go and show and then the guys were like ah.

07:07
Oh my God. So that was really fun. If you go back to my first podcast, I think I go into my reveal story in that one. Um, and it was really nice to be able to involve London in it. And then it was really sweet because when the guys were telling their friends and family, they actually used the t-shirt for that and they would take video and then send it to me. So it was just a really sweet kind of moment where I was involved. was involved in the film. That’s beautiful. Yeah.

07:32
T-shirt says promoted to big sister. Um, and then if you follow the boys on Instagram, I believe there’s actually a photo of that photo up on one of their posts. Oh, cute. So we’ll keep working through the photos. so part of your work is a personal trainer. that right? That’s correct. So I’m a yoga and Pilates teacher and a PT amongst other things, because I like to keep busy. And one of the things that I found or we found really challenging during our first journey was being in lockdown and not being able to go out and do things together. And so the first photo is Dan and I going to

08:02
We had a lot of fun just hanging out and being friends. And I think one of the things that I really wanted when having a local team was having the belly available to the family. And when we went through lockdown, that kind of was removed from that. And so it was really nice to just be involved and be around and be able to do things and kind of again,

08:22
When you’re going through surrogacy, when you’re going through a pregnancy journey, it is all consumed. There is just, is the grand total of your focus. And even though, you know, I’m showing off my bump at work and I’m doing fun things, it is still pretty much the epicenter of your world. And so sometimes for me being in lockdown in that pregnancy, I felt a little bit lost in the wash or I felt like I had lost the rest of my purpose.

08:46
And so this pregnancy, was really great to be able to be a friend, be an auntie to London, be a PT, have my job, have my friends have my social life and have surrogacy be a really integral part of that time in my life, but not everything. I also love my job. And so I worked until two weeks before my due date. cause that could create some interesting conversations for surrogacy teams in terms of how much control IPs want over the surrogates in pregnancy.

09:16
example of a surrogate who is very fit and active, running classes and doing weights and all sorts of things yourself. And so some IPs might be nervous. It’s like, Oh, are you taking good care of yourself? Should you rest? Should you go slow down? And these are the conversations you have to have as a team, isn’t it about the trust and then you’ve been fit and healthy and all that balance. So yeah, absolutely. think one of the things when we first started talking years ago was that I’m in fitness. work in fitness.

09:42
And both of the boys have worked in fitness before. And so one of things that I said was really important to me with my own pregnancies and with any potential surrogacy pregnancies was that I wanted to keep active. I wanted to keep fit and I specialize in pre and postnatal and so I have the backing to know when to push and when to rest. And they were always really supportive of that.

10:02
Having said that, if they didn’t have that background, that might be really confronting to see someone of that size in the gym slinging weights. So it’s definitely something to think about your lifestyle choices. You know, it’s not just, we drink alcohol or not? Do we smoke cigarettes or not? It’s, you know, diet, it’s exercise. It’s even something as simple as going in the spa or the sauna. No, these are questions that yeah, yeah. Not recommended during pregnancy, saying, but that’s obviously we have bodily autonomy. So that’s a choice.

10:32
that you need to make is a woman and there’s a surrogate or a pregnant person as a surrogate.

10:37
So much trust going on here. So yes, they’re trusting us during pregnancy and then I’m trusting them for after. So some photos here, this is a baby shower, was it? Yes, this was the baby shower for River and that is the team. And I love this one because it’s got London in it as well. I, you know, I was big and I was heavy and I was tired and looking back on these photos, I just think like we have such a special connection and I’m so proud to be a part of that. And now when I see the photos of the four of them, it’s just like, I get to have

11:07
this little I’m part of that. you made that. Yeah. And then that brings us to the day of birth. So you ended up having a caesarean which was not planned. Do you want to summarize? It’s hard to capture it all isn’t it a short bit but roughly tell us about how the birth went or the labor and then the birth. Yeah so oh so Bubs was looking quite large and my OBD was getting a little bit concerned because I’m not you know I’m not very large.

11:33
And so we looked at booking and introduction a little earlier. Yeah. was just 24 hours in contractions, running off. weren’t going anywhere. And then I think I put it out to the universe a little bit too much, but I didn’t want a caesarian because my OB came back in and he was like, so this isn’t, this isn’t like, and the one thing that I needed from, cause I’m a single parent.

11:55
The one thing that I have always asked the boys for is to be my voice when I don’t feel like I’ve got one. And so when I was in labor with London, I said to the boys, I’m like, want the epic. Give me the juice. um and because I had said to the midwife earlier, I would like to try and avoid one. She was like, Oh no, you’ve got this. You’re great. And the boys stepped up and they were like, no, no, no, no. And one of the things that I still remember, even though it was 24 hours of labor and all the, although all the stuff that comes with it, Dan actually pulled the OB aside and just sort of said, listen,

12:25
this happened last time, can you just make sure before you make, before you go forward with the caesarian, can you just make sure nothing’s happened? And I didn’t ask him to do that. He stepped up. He did that. So I’m gonna cry. Um, he stepped up and did that. And it just goes to show that in that moment, I was scared and sad and feeling annoyed at myself and all of these feelings. And he was still able to step up and advocate for me. And that’s something that I will be grateful for forever.

12:52
That’s beautiful. Yeah. And it’s just a sign that people that started out as strangers here, this is how involved and close you become. And sometimes IPs at the beginning of their journey wonder, oh, do we get to be at the birth of our child? And not just be at it, you will be an active part and a voice and an advocate and you’ll be supporting your surrogate through it. I think when you focus on the friendship and you build that up, that is something that will see you through. I mean, look, we’re not perfect. We’ve had fights, we’ve had disagreements. I’ve

13:19
We’re friends at the end of the day and friends fight, but it’s when push comes to shove literally that they’re able to, you know, we always talk about IPs should under promise and over deliver. And it’s one of those things where you can promise massages and food runs and, and, know, late night ice cream runs, but it’s in these moments when you can really step up for your surrogate and, know, be the person that you can be proud of telling your child about that journey.

13:47
Yeah. We ended up going with the caesarian and I will never forget it. yeah, the OB grabbed Bub and the first words out of his mouth were, yeah, this was never coming out of you. then over the screen, he lifted up a toddler in my opinion.

14:03
There’s a fantastic photo. So we talked, you talked earlier about birth photography and I have not had a birth photographer for either. However, we have always allocated a midwife, given phones, made sure that there’s someone in the room to take photos of important moments. And there is a wonderful photo that I don’t share online because it’s a, it’s a surgery photo.

14:20
But the absolute shock on my face at seeing the size of this child is it’s it’s honestly if you aren’t having a birth photographer make sure that you allocate someone to take the photos because there are moments that you will get a bit blurry about or you know, you might not remember clearly and yeah, it’s worth

14:39
Definitely. Agreed. It’s the photos for the surrogate to look back on because as you say during labor and birth the surrogate’s concentration is elsewhere. Oh. She’s missing the expression of everybody else in the room as well. Yes. Do you happen to remember roughly his birth weight or length size? No I’m a terrible auntie I don’t but I do remember that his head was on the 97th percentile. Yeah right big head. Yeah big boy.

15:01
Um, yeah. So my first journey, I, I like you, had P and D with both of my kids and I expected that with sorry, Bob’s. And so I put plans in place. also expressed colostrum, um, prenatally. then because of lockdown and my mental health, I decided to take the tablet, start my milk and not to repeat with river. I felt like I was in a much better place and I was able to offer that. Um, and so we had lots of conversations leading up to it. The guys were incredibly supportive and just sort of saying, go with what you feel. And you know, that can change a

15:31
the day like just let us know. I direct feds then I ended up pumping I planned for six weeks and I went all the way to 12. Wow amazing very proud and so that was in some ways like a year so nine months in your belly and then three months of providing him with milk and a great start to life. Yeah yes that’s him so it was really lovely having the caesarean was a bit of a bit of a bump in the road for me. I’m fiercely independent I’m a single parent the boys had to really step up and not only did they have a toddler they had a new

16:01
newborn and now they were doing school runs on top of that. Yes. But it was really lovely in a way because often it would be around feed time. so particularly in the early days, um, I’d get a message sort of saying, did you want to direct feed? Like, did you want to spend some time with him? And so Tyson would come and drop off River with me, and then he’d take the kids to school and then sort of come back and I’d be like, all right, there you go. I’ve had enough. uh And I think for people at the beginning, I’m just going to slow that down and let them absorb. No, no, no, no, no, it’s no, just, I don’t mean to slow it down.

16:31
mean is go over it again about how significant that is. So as you said your single mum had a caesarian but your children needed to get to school and so these dads this is something you had talked about and Tyson’s in education himself so he gets it. We all get it but in terms of your children needed to get to school so that was a job they had to do and so they had to navigate that juggling their toddler and their newborn and so that here you’re hearing the logistics. Tyson would come to your house with his child, you his child, take your children to school and you have some

17:01
alone time with their son who you have carried in birth and so there’s this level of comfort that they’re okay with you being alone with their child which is quite important to a lot of surrogates to have have some alone time so yeah just really wanted to highlight about how special that is and such a credit to your team that you guys got to that point of comfort and those conversations and

17:21
the real helping out there. well done team. Yeah. Yeah. Look, I think, um, I think it’s certainly something to consider particular with interstate teams as a single parent, I would not have been comfortable helping the kids in an Uber. I’d need to go with them. And then medically the first week that I’m a, I’m a pretty fit person. And I was, I was in struggle town. It was tough. then if you, know, the boys were fortunate enough to be able to have two of them home for several weeks, not everybody is able to do that. So I think.

17:48
hope for the best plan for the worst is always good policy whenever having children in any way, shape or form, but particularly in a surrogacy team and particularly with a single parent, whatever you think you might need to do, add 10%. And if you never need it, great. But if you ever run into those problems, make sure that you’ve had those conversations. Great advice there. And then life goes on. And so there’s these photos of,

18:12
London and River being siblings and you having catch-ups with them. Yes, yes so that that photo with River and I is nine months in nine months out. Ah yes. Yes again this child is enormous, gorgeous but enormous. um

18:27
And then, yeah, so I, you know, the boys have two kids. I have two kids. have jobs. I have a job. And so there are times where I won’t see them for a week or two or a little bit longer. If you know, my kids or their kids being sick, I get updates and I get photos and I get to feel like I’m still a part of it. Um, which is, know, one of the earlier photos was the chalk writing that London had done one day when I was coming over to visit. And it’s like, you know, welcome Auntie Beth. And it’s, just these little moments where again, going back to my first journey, going back to before I was a surrogate, I had a very different idea about

18:57
what surrogacy meant for the surrogate and I imagine this picture where I would have this baby and I’d do this good thing and I’d get all these nice feelings and then the couple would walk off into the sunset and my job would be done knowing that I was you know doing the good thing and in fact my life has become so much richer for it and my kids lives have become so much richer for it and it’s just I think when you when you get it right when you’re able to work through things these ripples echo out through the rest of your life. uh

19:24
awesome webinar that you are here for or listening to this recording here. There are so many gems, a wise person who’s who’s been in this legacy community now but you have there’s so many gems of wisdom there. I will just ask what is the travel distance in time between you guys and then on average how often would you be catching up now?

19:41
Okay. So we are ridiculously lucky, ridiculously fortunate. So our travel time, and that was actually another thing now that you mentioned it. So usually it’s about 15 minutes and then the week that I had or the day or two before, or maybe it was the week before I had River, they put in roadworks, massive roadworks, like putting in trams in between the boys and I. So it went from being a 15 minute drive to being a 45 minute drive. So then not only were they negotiating that traffic and then the school run and then the school run back, they were then driving. Yeah. was the timing Melbourne.

20:11
Come on. Um, and then we catch up, I would say probably once a fortnight to once a month. Now again, sometimes, you know, they’ll be like, Hey, how about dinner? And I’m like, Oh, I can fit you in in three weeks and their kids get sick and my kids get sick. And it’s just, I think it’s really, really important though, to understand that the first few weeks and the first few months looked very, very different. that was, yes, lots of contact in that time. of contact, lots of reassurance, lots of reassuring my body.

20:41
that baby was okay. um but yeah, now, now it’s like I said, surrogacy becomes the epicenter of your team of your world. And then it’s nice to kind of slowly move back to the whole friend thing. Um, so this photo was of all four babies that I brought safely earth side, which I’m so proud of. And my children have declined to be shared online. So that’s fine. We respect that. But yeah, I just, we were just around for dinner one night and we hadn’t seen each other in a few weeks because you know, scheduled

21:11
and sick kids and Melbourne weather and I just sort of sat back and I was like look at these cute kids yeah I mean two out of four I had nothing to do with but I but you grew and birthed those four humans yeah pretty amazing thing right it’s pretty phenomenal when you think about it and as surrogates we often just go yeah yeah it’s just something I did we don’t often stop and

21:30
pause and go, yeah, wow, I did that. So well done for taking that photo that night of going, these are all the babies. So it’s actually, it’s funny that you say that because I was at work and some of the people know that I’ve obviously been a surrogate before and I was talking to someone and I was like, Oh, you know, well, I’ve had two babies. And, and one of my workmates was like, you’ve had four. I went,

21:50
Yes, because you get to that point now when people are like, how many kids have you got? Yes. I’ve two that I keep, but I grew another one or two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing these beautiful photos. So Beth, you have a think about if there’s any extra things that you wanted to add in. But I suppose now could be a moment for me to ask you about SASS. So Beth, your team was a SASS team twice. You were self-matched and then you decided to stay on with SASS for the second time as well. Tell me a bit more about this.

22:15
So if there’s one thing I could say, I learned so much in my first journey that I carried into my second journey. I got a lot better at advocating for myself medically outside of labor. So my first surrogacy was a medicated cycle. And then my second one, I really pushed for a natural one. Yeah. I was a lot better educated at that point. knew kind of, I knew what I’d been through with the first one and I wanted to at least attempt for a natural cycle. I’d kind of seen more studies come out.

22:42
basically. But one thing I’ve never really been good at, and I think a lot of surrogates aren’t good at, is asking for your needs that feel like wants.

22:52
And so counseling and you and I’ve had this chat before I am a massive advocate for counseling because even, even on the days where you think everything’s fine, particularly when you’re pregnant, you’ll see something on TV and you’ll be bawling your eyes out. And it’s that whole analogy of like, even if your engine light isn’t on, you still take your car to be serviced. If you’re doing the right thing, it’s really important pre during and post to kind of have a check-in because.

23:16
particularly for me as a single parent, don’t have that person, don’t, know, Katrina Howell talks about the circle of grief. I don’t have that person to unload onto. And if I’m struggling in the pregnancy or if I’m struggling with something going on with the boys, I’m not gonna go and talk to them about it.

23:29
And the only way I’m neuro-spicy and so the only way for me to process things, work through them enough to come back to the boys and be like, Hey, this is what’s going on in my head is to go extra. And having you be able to go to bat for me and me not having to worry about it was just, yeah, I needed that both times. I genuinely did. Yeah. And so to elaborate on what Beth means is that yes, part of the SASS package is some prepaid counseling, but it runs out. And so what happens to continue that is that part of my job with SASS is I go back to the IPs and ask for top-ups and they

23:58
like prepay for five sessions and then.

24:01
What happens is the surrogate uses those sessions and the psychologist sends us the invoice and we pay it. Surrogate doesn’t even have to think about it. She knows that the connection is happening. And then when the sessions are running low again, I go to the IPs and I ask for top ups and they pay it. And because this is a way of supporting the surrogate, it’s through the counseling. In some ways, I feel counseling is the gift to the surrogate to be able to talk through it with somebody external, because you have hard days during pregnancy and post-birth. And it doesn’t mean you regret doing what you’re doing, but it can still be hard physically and then also emotionally.

24:31
having a baby with multiple people and sometimes you get frustrated with them but you just need to vent it to somebody external or work out a way to bring up the problem in a balanced way with your team. So yes, I think counselling is one of those gifts for a surrogate and the big agencies overseas where the IPs pay many more tens of thousands of dollars, the counselling is…

24:52
built into that package. So that’s part of the gift, isn’t it? Definitely. I have spicy brain. I hurt my own feelings if I’m left alone with no music for too long, right? So it’s like, was able to work through so many things that weren’t actually a problem or maybe were a little bit of a problem, but just needed to be spoken about without building that resentment and without kind of feeding the team from the inside.

25:14
The other thing I’ll say is that while I found that really valuable, even the second time around, even after having been a mentor, if you’re going into this as a first timer or you’re considering things or you’re not sure, having that mentor, having that person to touch base with makes such a difference. You know, again, going back, watch six, don’t do it. How many years have you been in the community, Beth? Seven and a half. Is it about six or seven? You can tell we’ve got kids.

25:41
I had moments where I had no idea if I had bitten off more than a chew. I had no idea if I had lost my mind. I had no idea if it’s like something out of a telenovela the first time that you see it. It is real. It can be done. It can be amazing. It can be your thing. And it also is, like you said earlier, it’s okay if it’s not. It’s okay if you do your research and you have a chat to someone, you go, actually, you know what? I don’t think I can. But without having that conversation, you’re never going to know either way. And while PRP gets a really bad rap in Melbourne or in Victoria, there’s a, uh

26:11
someone to give checks and balances to actually go, Hey, can you take care of your surrogate to the surrogate? Can you actually be a surrogate and healthy way that is going to be in the best interest of the child and the team? These are questions that you think to ask yourself when you start out, you get caught up in this whole idea of like, I’m going to do the good thing and it’s going to be amazing. And it can be a really good thing, but it is a marathon, a sprint. It can really take it out of you. And I think having someone to check in with that makes all the difference.

26:38
Indeed, and it’s having those check-ins and so sometimes that can come from a mentor like a SASS mentor. Sometimes it’s other connections you’ve made in the community and it can be both other IPs and other surrogates that you can chat to and lean on. Sometimes it’s SASS guidance and then sometimes it is the professional psychological support too. So it’s having different layers uh of check-ins with different people I guess. Yeah.

27:02
And I think you really struck on it earlier where not everybody’s a Facebook person. And so by having the SaaS community, even the Zooms, know, yes, there have been teams who have matched through there, but having community members where you don’t have to be active on Facebook. You don’t have to have a huge profile on Instagram and you can find your community and you can talk to people who’ve done it, who haven’t done it, who are at the same part of the journey as you, because this is not something to be taken lightly and having people who have walked past before you or able to walk with you makes all the difference. Agreed.

27:32
Well, we’ll start to come to the end, but Stephen has typed a question in that says, thanks for the presentation. And he asks, given having the boys so close by as in the two dads you carried for, and that had such a significant impact on your journey, how important do you consider then having local IPs? Oh, that’s a big question. I have seen in my history in the community, I have seen interstate teams do really well. We’ve also seen local and interstate teams do it well and local and interstate teams do it badly. Badly. Yes.

28:02
uh I think it has, mean, look, for me, it was important for me. It was really important. It was maybe not a deciding factor, but it was definitely one of the things that drew me towards the boys is having them in state. I think you can make it work, whether you’re local or whether you’re interstate. think there are lots of things to consider if you’re doing an in-state journey, whether you have a single surrogate, whether you have a partnered surrogate, there’s more moving parts. It’s harder to manage. So for the guys, okay, we had extra traffic. It was 45 minutes, but they were still able to come and

28:32
pick up the milk, we didn’t have to organise careers to freeze it. So I was able to direct feed for the first few days. I was able to provide milk and swap it over every few days. Things like that would be more challenging with today. Yeah, more logistics and ultimately therefore cost more. Yes. Or perhaps paying for things to for the surrogates children like after school care or vacation care or babysitting if they’re not able to help out to give you a break in person. So it can be done. But again, having some guidance, like for example, part of SASS in our expenses calculator that we have teams work through.

29:02
we have suggestions for all of the expenses to consider and therefore that this you know helps you to think about all of these Logistical issues that might crop up. Yep, definitely Have you got any last bits of parting advice that you would like to pass on to the community or more? Learnings from your years in the community take your time. It’s not going to be quick not not from an IP not from a surrogate’s perspective take your time ask the hard questions of

29:26
those that you’re looking to form a team with, but also yourself. One of the things that we ask surrogates is if you are not able to have more children, would you be content with your life? And while we can hope for the best plan for the worst and we can always try and have a gold star journey, we don’t always get it. So as an IP, as a surrogate, if this team breaks down, would you be able to hold your head high as either side?

29:48
would you be able to share your story? And I think if you’re not willing to put in everything to make that journey work, that needs to be a bit of a stop and think moment. Can you tell me more about, oh, this is so bad. Could you put your head high? So you’re saying that if the team falls apart, are you saying that make sure that you’ve done right? You’ve just been good humans along the way to each other as much as possible. Yes. If for any reason, pregnancy hormones, and this is why, again, I advocate for counseling,

30:16
There were days when I just completely lost my mind and didn’t know who I was and didn’t know where I was. And I never once just FYI, I never once thought about walking away with a baby. um But it was like, you know, can, particularly during my first journey, like can our friendship survive this? And if you haven’t done everything to get it to the point where you can say, right, I need to put this to bed for my own mental health. Have you done everything leading up to the journey, leading up to the pregnancy and during the pregnancy to sort of say, you know what, it didn’t work out, but we did our best. It’s like the ending of a marriage.

30:44
right? Yeah, yeah. Is there any way of knowing before you’re pregnant then have you done enough work as a team? Go. So this is just Beth and I having a chat now. Yeah, yeah. Sometimes because people are like how do we know that we’re going to be strong enough and often you don’t until there is real conflict. Sometimes the advice I give people and I think you actually did some of this in your first journey is how can you manufacture sort of conflict and that might be things like moving house together or somebody happens to be moving house building Ikea furniture together or going over to the other person’s house and

31:14
cooking dinner and doing the washing up and seeing if that you do it in the right way or not and can you communicate if it’s wrong and it’s not how you like it. So it’s about doing uncomfortable things together to see how you react in those situations. um So sorry dating can be a lot like dating right? I think a really good benchmark is tell them that they’re wrong. them what it is doesn’t matter if you think they’re wrong but tell them that they’re wrong. Tell them that you disagree and see how it goes because if you can’t have a healthy disagreement with these people they’re to happen along the way anyway. They are.

31:44
I think I heard that once as well, the surrogate needs to be told no. So you need to perhaps, you know, organize a catch up or something, or the surrogate makes a suggestion and it actually doesn’t fit with your schedule. And sometimes IPs go, oh yes, of course, of course. uh It’s the surrogate, we’ll make it work. Instead of going, actually, no, that doesn’t fit with our schedule. She actually wants you to say no to her from time to time because that’s what real friends do.

32:06
And we’re, know, particularly in the early days, we’re making sure that we can say no. We’re making sure that you can say no, because if at any point one of us needs to, it’s not a good idea to do that while you’re pregnant. No one’s thinking right. Yes. And we want to be able to say no and the friendship not fall apart. Yes. And unless we’ve had practice at that, yes, then the very first time you do say no to us in our head, we think it’s going to fall. Yes.

32:28
Yeah right. There you go there’s my t-shirt practice saying no. I have a page of things I’ve already written down so maybe I should like split this episode up into six and then give six hook lines. Yes done. Done. Or I’ll just come back again five to four times. Whoa. So does that mean Beth are you done or are gonna be a surrogate again? Oh good lord funny so funny ha ha no no no shop.

32:52
shop shirt, shit sailed, boots are hung, baths run, peas are split, i don’t know we’re done we’re done hang your uterus up yes she’s hung up the poor old girl’s been through enough okay she’s done a good job yes yes she has maybe that’s the uterus did a good job

33:06
Okay, well, anything else left to think about that you’ve thought of that we haven’t worked our way into this chat so far? Look, I think in some ways that was a little bit of a negative turn. I genuinely believe in, I genuinely believe in, in being able to do this. I genuinely believe that, you know, there are lots of conversations at the moment about altruistic surrogacy, but it can work. It can be amazing. And for me, I would, I was over the other night and, um, Oh God, I’m going to get all teary again. Um, the boys are talking to London and, and I was sitting

33:36
on the couch and they were kind of like, ah where did River come from? And London pointed to my belly. And then they were like, Oh, where did you come from? And then London pointed to my belly and it was funny. And I was like, and so did Zander and so did Michael. And it was just like this moment where it’s one of those moments that I hold really close because it’s not an act. It’s not a photo shared online. It’s not a big thing. It’s just, I’m part of the story. And that’s something that like, I’m going to be a little old lady and I’m going to remember.

34:05
Yeah. And that’s a credit to them as dads, because for London to be able to point to your belly and know where everybody came from, it means that they’re talking about it regularly. It’s not just this random thing that happened. And even the egg don’t know where did the egg come from? And it was the, that’s like, it’s so cool to see families come in all different shapes and sizes. If there’s one thing I’ve learned from both journeys is that families come in all different shapes and sizes. We can have two dads, we can have two moms, we can have whatever. Right. And knowing that this little girl and this little boy,

34:35
are going to go forth and have these conversations and you don’t know what conversations those are going to spark. Like that’s something really special to be part of. Yes, that they will be advocating for surrogacy. We’ve created this next wave of advocates in these children born from this and your children, that your own keeper children, that they’re advocates for it too. Well thank you Beth. In the chats somebody has said thank you. Our joy and enthusiasm in sharing your story in the real parts is so helpful. So there we go. Thank you.

35:03
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