Episode 91 – Melissa – straight mum

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Thanks for watching!

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Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKie, and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org During the one hour webinars, I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia, and you can type in questions for us to answer.

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My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight mums. This episode, recorded in February 2025, features Melissa. Melissa and her husband Harry lived in Adelaide when they became parents to their son Harvey in August 2024. Harvey was carried by surrogate Rachel, who was previously a stranger and who lives in

01:07
Melissa has MRKH, which means being born without a uterus, and it has been a long journey to motherhood, initially being part of uterus transplant trials, a move from Sydney, and then a couple of years in the surrogacy community before Rachel found them. So she is a very determined mother. It was a pleasure to chat with Melissa, partly because we know each other in person, but also because she and Harry had attended one of the webinars many years ago when they were learning about surrogacy.

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and looking for a surrogate, and now she was able to be a co-host as a mum herself. The attendees in this webinar asked some great questions, including discussions about the cost of surrogacy and what IPs, intended parents, need to do to essentially pitch themselves as good candidates to friends and strangers. Melissa’s words of wisdom include, It’s hard to keep putting yourself out there. We had to push ourselves out of our comfort zone. Share who you are as a person. Be your true self.

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we held onto the belief that we would become parents. I hope you enjoy this episode. We are joined by Melissa tonight and we’ve got an extra special guest of her son, Harvey, with us. Thank you for joining us, Melissa. Please, thank you for having us.

02:19
As I said in the introduction, you have MIKH, which means you were born without a uterus, so you found that out at some point in your life. Do you want to take us back to the beginning about how you eventually ended up on the path of the surrogacy? Yep, so I was officially diagnosed with MIKH when I was 19. So it was actually quite a few years before I was actually diagnosed. A lot of doctors kept misdiagnosing me and yeah, it was quite actually a traumatic diagnosis journey. Yeah, so then I had a laparoscopy, I think when I was 19 to officially confirm what I was missing.

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I still had obviously ovaries and flak tubes and yeah, so it’s been quite a long journey. And when I was first diagnosed, it was quite a shock, of course. I’d imagine that there’s a grieving process that goes on. Definitely. Yes, definitely. So it took me quite a few years actually to sort of heal from that. I think because of my diagnosis journey, it just didn’t help either, of course. I basically lived 11 years without knowing whether I’d be a mother. So that was quite hard.

03:19
some days were harder than others but I think the important part was that I tried my best to sort of you know not let that dictate my life and sort of move past that. It sounds like you’re really condensing into a few sentences there an enormous journey that has gone on. Definitely yeah. Was there much support out there from peers or other people that you knew of or any counseling that helped? Well at the time when I was first diagnosed well my fertility doctor didn’t even know what it was

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what I thought I had, which was quite distressing. So that’s what I did. I Googled, you know, born without a uterus and then it came up with MIKH. And I was lucky enough to come across a MIKH foundation that was actually just being established in Australia. So I reached out to the founder and she put me in touch with a doctor from the Royal Hospital for Women in Renwick. And that’s how I basically got officially diagnosed. So yeah, and I did also go through some counseling because obviously, you know, you’re pretty young at the time,

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finished high school, it was quite a shock not only for me but also for my mum. My mum was very devastated by my diagnosis. She felt in some way that it was her fault. If anything, she was probably more heartbroken than I was at that point in time. So that was quite difficult for her. It almost was like a grieving process for her as well. So yeah, it was part of both of us and I think it was really good having my mum’s support as well. We both supported each other and sort of dealt with you know the highs and lows. And I guess yes, as a mother feeling like you want to

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that’s really tricky but you know seeing you as a mum now must be beautiful for her. Definitely yeah. But to the point where as a parent you want to help your children no matter what, well that is what your mum ultimately did offer wasn’t it? Right yes so back in 2019 we heard about the uterus transplant trial at

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at the Royal Prince Alfred’s Hospital in Sydney. And when mum heard about it, she was really excited and said, I’m gonna be, I’ll do it, I’ll do it for you. You know, let’s call them right away. And the cutoff age at that point in time was 65. And I think my mum was 63 at the time, or 64.

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So she’s like, we need to get this done ASAP. We went through the whole screening process. We completed all the blood tests, ultrasound, the MRIs, the counseling, the whole thing. We were just waiting for it to be, for everything to be sent through to the ethics committee. And then my husband and I, we were going to start IVF in April of 2020. But then of course COVID happened. So it all came to a halt. We were actually meant to have, I was actually meant to have a mother-in-law, obviously.

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procedure done after our wedding in September 2020. But obviously it just completely came to a halt when COVID happened, that we had to actually withdraw from the program. So that was quite upsetting because obviously we had gone so far and then suddenly it just, okay, it’s not happening anymore. So we sort of lost that hope. But I think in a sense, I was relieved personally because I was worried about my mum, especially because of her age, but also because it’s such a big procedure. It’s just, yeah, I know I have a friend

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uterus transplant. She now has a little girl but she has gone through so much and her health has been greatly affected as well because of all the immunosuppressant drugs that she’s been on or she’s still on. So I sort of look at it as a silver lining in a sense. That didn’t work out and also we met Rachel our surrogate and we just feel so incredibly lucky and grateful to have her in our lives. So she’s like a life becoming like lifelong friend now. So yeah. So yeah you get an extra bonus family as well. That’s right. And so we met in

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for husband Harry’s work I think it was. Roughly, do you remember when you moved to South Australia? That was actually during COVID. So that would have been I think May 2020 perhaps it was. Yeah so my husband’s family actually live in Adelaide so that was another reason why we relocated to Adelaide and we just wanted a different lifestyle. But obviously at the time it was a bit crazy, the borders were shut and yeah so that was a bit full-on at the time. Yeah a long drive and a long long trip over to South Australia with all the chaos happening at the time with COVID so.

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But in some ways it was, if we look at that…

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say August-ish 2020 when you’re in Adelaide to August 2024, you know, it was four years for you to be sort of embracing surrogacy to become a mom. And I think in your own journey then it was probably, we haven’t checked the timeline there, but was it close to two years with your own surrogate that once you met till birth, or was it a year and a half, do you remember? We actually connected with our surrogate at the end of 2022, I believe. And then we met at the beginning of the year, 2023. Yeah. It was a bit of a process, obviously.

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because it was just unexpected when our surrogate reached out to us. So we had to sort of jump on straight on to another round of IVF. Yeah. And so because we had met, you know, in the Adelaide community a couple of times in that sort of two year period and that’s hard for intended parents, isn’t it? That waiting game, not knowing will you ever find a surrogate. Yes. Any comments or thoughts about that stage of the journey? Yeah, I think it was very difficult for my husband and I at times. So we were part of the surrogacy community in South Australia for quite a while and we felt like

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finding this our get and connecting and we were sort of trying to sort of put ourselves out there get the message across, attend lots of events but we just felt like we weren’t even getting anywhere and I think it got to a point where we just felt like okay let’s just go with if it happens it happens. We looked into foster care and that we were actually rejected for that because we had previously undergone IVF so that was the reason why we couldn’t pursue that any further and I think that three weeks after that after our rejection of foster care is when Rachel actually

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But I think it’s definitely hard, you know, thinking you may never connect with anyone, you may never have a sorry girl. When Rachel actually offered to us, we sorry, offered to help us out, we actually couldn’t believe it. We just thought, you know, maybe she’s just saying that or, you know, it’s hard to sort of believe that someone can do such a big thing for you. So at the time, my husband and I were just sort of, you know, we’ll just see what happens, you know, she might change her mind though, or, you know, it might not work out. And, and obviously it did work out. But I think because we were so used to disappointment,

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and so things not going to plan, that we were sort of expecting that in a sense. Two questions about that stage before we move on to your photos. And how did Rachel connect with you? Was it through one of the Facebook groups and a post there? Yeah, so we actually met Rachel through the Australian Zoroastrian Community page on Facebook. Very unexpected, very random. What happened was I simply saw Rachel’s introduction and I just liked her post. And then a couple of hours later, I received a message from her and I thought, oh, okay.

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for a bit and then we met up with him the week after. Wow. Yeah. So it was literally liking her post. You hadn’t commented. No I didn’t even comment. I think at that point we just felt like oh you know we’ve sort of given up and you know we’ll just see what happens but I think as we were trying so hard for so long it just felt like we didn’t we lost that hope in a sense and I thought okay just I just liked what Rachel was saying and I just thought oh everyone’s commenting there’s heaps of people you know but yeah very very unexpected very random um a complete shock to

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you’ve got little

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you know at that point we just felt like oh I wouldn’t look into the keratid so we didn’t pursue another IVF round but I think it’s yeah definitely important to have that less sort of have that all ready to go a lot less stress as well. Yeah that’s good advice there. Yeah having some embryos in the freezer and as much as you can even though it’s hard to know oh will I find a surrogate or not is it worth it but if you’ve got them there that can save time later on too. Definitely yeah. Well we’re going to go share the photos now that you shared with us and we’ll

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journey a bit more. So yeah, tell us what’s happening here. Was this this second egg collection you were talking about? Yes, that’s correct. Yeah, the second round of IVF is when we met Rachel. So I think roughly three months after meeting Rachel was when we did the second round of IVF. Obviously, there’s a bit of preparation involved with that. And as you can see in my hand, I had eight eggs collected. So that was quite exciting for us and quite amazing because our first round, we only had two, sorry, two eggs collected. So I think there’s a lot of stress for both my husband and I when

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we did the second round because we just felt like, oh my gosh, it’s, you know, what happens, we don’t get enough eggs, we don’t get enough embryos. So that’s not the reason why I said it’s important to have the embryos ready to go. That definitely caused a lot of stress at the time.

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Yes. And so how many embryos did you end up with in the freezer? We end up with four from the second round. Right. And one from the first. So you had five. Yeah, five all up. That’s correct. Yeah. And then it was the third transfer you were… The third transfer. Yeah, that’s right. And so is this the photo of your team at that third transfer or one of the three? So this would be the photo taken at the first transfer. And the first transfer resulted in a biochemical pregnancy. So that was quite upsetting. Yes, because you sort of get your hopes up a little bit, but then it’s… Yeah, that’s right.

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definitely. We had sort of holding on to the hope a bit, you know, you know, when it’s going to be okay, you know, and obviously it wasn’t. So that was a little of grief around that when it didn’t work. And then I imagine as a team, well, I mean, we ultimately were three transfers, our second embryo didn’t survive being thought out. Any reflections on that time when you’ve had the second embryo transfer hasn’t worked? Is there ever those thoughts of is it ever going to happen? Will the surrogate decide she doesn’t want to continue?

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Yeah, we definitely had those thoughts when the second one didn’t work. We’re just like, oh, you know, like it was, I think that was what sort of made us think a lot more when the second one didn’t work. We just felt like, OK, is this ever going to happen? What if Rachel decides that she doesn’t want to go through this again? Because obviously the medication that Rachel had to take was quite intense and she was having quite unpleasant side effects as well. So we felt really bad for her having to deal with those side effects and knowing what the effect is having on her body and her mental health, perhaps as well. And we just we even said to Rachel, you know, if you don’t want to do

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continue where you completely understand you know so. That’s lovely viewers IPs to say that I mean fair enough I guess but um that’s really hard when it’s your dream but you’re realizing somebody else is putting their body and their family on the line to help you. Yeah.

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an impact. So but then it worked hey. That’s right. Here he is. Yes and here he is on your lap. Date on that um embryo transfer I’m guessing was um 13th of December 2023. So did you, did you therefore know by Christmas time roughly that you were pregnant? Yeah we, yeah we did actually. Um so we found out I think two days before Christmas. So it was literally a Christmas miracle. Yes. Um and um at the time Harry and I, um my husband and I, we were actually out

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We said, oh.

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Are you sure though? Are you sure? Even then we still couldn’t believe it. It was just a complete shock. Of course. And so then the pregnancy rolls on. So we’ve got a few photos that happened here during the pregnancy of some of the scans and a baby shower. Anything that you think of when you look back at these photos? Yeah, I honestly just can’t. I can’t believe it. Even just looking at those photos. It’s just crazy to believe that we were once just looking at the ultrasound and now here he is. He is wiggling a little. Yeah. And how was the pregnancy for Rachel? Was it similar to her

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smooth pregnancy except the only thing is she actually became quite unwell. I think around 30 weeks she developed pneumonia. So that was quite scary. You know, we’re worried about not only Rachel, but of course little Harvey. My husband and I, we just try to sort of don’t let those thoughts sort of get to us and just try to stay positive. And I think that was quite hard just not having any sense of control as well. And for those that don’t know.

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Goolwa to Adelaide, it’s sort of about an hour and a half type of drive. Yeah, roughly. How often were you able to see each other or were there any types of supports you were able to offer her during pregnancy? Yeah, so we regularly communicated. My husband’s family actually live in Victor Harbour, so quite close by to Rachel. So we’d always try to pop by and see her, go over for lunch, sort of go to a cafe for lunch. So we did our best to sort of keep the communication going. And every time we saw Rachel, it was just incredible.

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seeing her with a little bump and seeing her grow. And it was even just then, even seeing her then was just so hard to believe. It was all happening. Lovely. Okay, so we’re just working through these photos, but then we get to the day of birth. Was that a planned thing, the date with an induction, or it was just wait and see when she goes into labor? Yeah, so a planned induction. It was a bit of a crazy time as well because…

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husband and I were in the process of actually moving house. So a bit chaotic. Induction was planned at 38 weeks. So actually the date originally was meant to be I think roughly the 19th or 20th of August but they ended up bringing it forward to the 16th of August. So that sort of caught us off guard. Pretty crazy because Rachel’s daughter had birthday actually the same day. So pretty full on. And so yeah you got to become a mum and so a lot of IPs at the beginning you know who are just learning about surrogacy sometimes wonder oh will you

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at the birth and so yes talk talk us through the day of birth witnessing

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you know, another woman in labour and birthing. Pretty crazy to be honest. So we received the phone call, I think around 4.30 from Rachel’s partner. And we could, you know, hear everything in the background. So that was a bit full on. And my husband and I didn’t sleep at all that night. No sleep whatsoever. When we arrived, we were actually pretty lucky we arrived when we did, because I think roughly an hour or so later is when Harvey was born. I think it’s sort of quite confronting seeing, you know, Rachel in so much pain and you feel completely useless.

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you just feel really bad. You feel like you can’t do anything and you’re trying your best to sort of be there to support her and you sort of in the way at the same time. So that was a bit hard seeing Rachel in such intense pain and not being able to do anything about it. But we’re very grateful that Rachel’s partner was there during the birth as well. Yeah, we’re really grateful for that to be honest, because my husband and I just felt like, what do we do? Where do we stand?

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No. Yes, not having been at births before. So right, yeah. And then he entered the world and so photos here of you giving Rachel a big hug and then you guys holding Harvey for the first time. So when you look back at these photos, yeah, what are you thinking and feeling? To be honest, it’s such a surreal feeling. The moment I held Harvey, I just felt like I was in a dream. I felt like I was just not in my body. It was so hard to believe that it’s finally happened after all these years, after such a long journey. Even now sometimes I still pinch myself. I can’t believe it.

17:58
Very emotional day, running on lots of adrenaline and you know it’s just yeah there’s a lot of emotions going on, lots of things. Definitely and Rachel has a big smile on her face there, she looks pretty proud of what she did. Yeah. Yeah and then life starts to go on a little bit doesn’t it and so we’ve got well the photos still in the hospital of Rachel having some cuddles. Did you stay in the hospital with Rachel in like rooms next door to each other? Yes we did actually, so we ended up having to stay overnight and yeah we had rooms right next to each other

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So that was a bit unexpected because I didn’t think that my husband and I would be able to stay the night. We weren’t really sure. Yeah, it was really nice. And that must be nice as you start to bond with Harvey, your son, and then also being able to see Rachel and her to have cuddles and things like that. Brian. Yeah. And then so yes, there’s more photos in the hospital of you two and having a little nap while Harvey has a nap too.

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That’s it, yeah. Very big day. Did Rachel take that photo? Yeah, I think she did, yeah, from the bed, yeah. And I reckon as a surrogate watching your IPs who are now parents, you know, doting on their child or even just being near them, that must have been a really precious moment for her too. Yeah, I definitely think so, yeah. And then you had some newborn photos taken, some beautiful photos here, really celebrating being a mum and dad. Yeah, definitely very precious memories that we will hold on forever. And some beautiful photos of Harvey here too.

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of Rachel holding Harvey at catch-ups that you’ve had in the future and I sometimes you know imagine being an IP right back at the beginning and seeing another woman, the woman that birthed your child, holding your child and there might be for some people some fears at the beginning or I’m not sure if jealousy is the right word but uncomfortableness. Do you remember feeling that at the beginning of a surrogacy journey and then looking at this photo now? What do you feel? I don’t think I really had any of those feelings to be honest. I think for me it’s sort of hard you know entrusting

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a baby for you, especially when they’re a stranger initially. But I think it’s all about trust. And we trusted, we thought very connected with Rachel from the very beginning, just instant connection. Yeah, I think for me, it’s a bit hard, not obviously experiencing all pregnancy symptoms and obviously giving birth, that’s sort of quite hard at times, now I don’t even think about that anymore because obviously, heart is here and that’s all that matters to me. Beautiful, and so yes, and then some catch ups. So when you said these to me,

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recognise the cafe anybody from Adelaide that’s Mother Duck Cafe down at Goolwa. Yeah. So we sometimes as surrogates like to think that they remember us it’s almost as though Harvey’s like looking up at her really interested who knows maybe. Yeah. And so now though you’ve moved back to New South Wales and so you won’t be able to see each other as much in person have you got any plans for an in-person catch-up coming up? Yeah I think we’re happy to perhaps organise another trip to Adelaide maybe in the middle of the year sometime. We’ll always

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always try to make an effort to see Rachel and Kat Sharp. It was really, actually really nice when we caught up with Rachel last month. It was just, yeah, really, really nice because obviously she’s…

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she can see Harvey, how much he’s changed, how much he’s grown, how big he is and yeah we always want to maintain that relationship with Rachel so definitely try to keep up with regular catch-ups for sure. And I guess there are other ways of staying in contact too with FaceTime, Messenger, Photos and I’m sure you do that and then yes some photos of you guys as a family of three. You’re a mum hey, you’re a mum. We have had lots of questions come through tonight, we don’t really have this meeting which is wonderful. There you go.

21:26
And so there are a variety of questions that we’ve had typed in. I’m just going to do a couple first that are about SAS. Anonymous asks sort of two questions. So for those who don’t use social media, does SAS help with introductions, matching, etc.? How many surrogates are there to IPs? I imagine there’s a long list of IPs. Yes, so SAS does help with introductions. And in some ways, ideally, it is for people who don’t use social media much. And some people for their own professions or whatever are not on social media much. On our website, you can find our monthly report

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and surrogates who are engaged with SAS at any point in time. But that then leads me onto the second question, which is, does SAS actually have any surrogates in waiting? Like, does that speed up the chances of finding someone? I guess it’s interesting because I have, say, I don’t know, 12 IPs who are doing their paperwork at any point in time, and maybe sort of four to eight surrogates who are doing their paperwork. But it’s not like then surrogates sit around waiting, because when the surrogate’s done all her paperwork and had her mentor session, and then she’s ready to be introduced to IPs, then we get on and we do that process.

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you know, she looks at profiles and so there’s not this pool of surrogates that are waiting if that sort of makes sense. So I hope that answers that question. I’m going to go to a great question by Jamie and Cody who are fantastic members of the community and they’re pregnant as their surrogacy team at the moment and their question is, how did you navigate post-birth and the fourth trimester as a team? So those who are brand new listening, the fourth trimester is what we call the first three months post-birth because sometimes for a surrogate, well her body’s adjusting to not.

22:51
having the baby to raise and so that can be tricky as a team sometimes. As a team, Melissa, how, any thoughts on navigating that post-birth and those few months post-birth?

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I think we just tried to sort of catch up as much as we could possible, you know, keep up to date with, you know, just seeing photos of Harvey to Rachel and sort of making, keeping her still involved. I think that’s a very important thing we still do to this day as well. We was seeing Rachel some photos of Harvey as he’s growing and changing. It was quite hard for myself and my husband personally, you know, coming home suddenly with a baby and then having to sort of adjust to parenthood. But a shock, obviously, because I didn’t experience the pregnancy and any symptoms and good birth. So that was quite a big.

23:31
sort of transitioned for me personally. I’ve said multiple times before, it just felt still so surreal and hard to sort of believe that you know it’s actually real he’s here and the first couple of months for myself and my Harry that was quite a big adjustment because obviously your whole life changes you know you become a mum and a dad and your whole identity changes so that was a bit of a shock actually yeah so it’s just that was a bit of a process but you know obviously we got there

24:01
sometimes as a parent and adjusting to your life now with this baby non-stop. And yes, so was there any types of supports in particular for yourself then that you found helpful? I think at the time I found it helpful just reaching out to my mum a lot, you know, just sort of speaking to her on the phone and things like that. At the time we were still living in Adelaide, so the first couple of weeks when Harvey was born and we ended up, we actually moved to New South Wales, I think roughly when Harvey was a month old. Yeah, so that was quite full on.

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more support from families close by, especially my auntie should come over once a week and help me just to sort of do bits and pieces and look after Harvey so I could, you know, have some time to decompress every now and then. But yeah, I think it’s definitely important to have that support because it is a big transition, especially when you’ve lived, you know, knowing that you can’t have children easily for so long and then, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s a real, it’s almost like a shock to your system. Yes, indeed. Yeah. And with the move back into state at one month, you had a lot of

25:00
stressful. I don’t recommend it. No, perhaps not. Two anonymous questions that have been typed in here, so I’ll read them out and interested to hear your thoughts. This first person has had a beautiful person offered to be a surrogate for them via Facebook. She’s not had any children of her own and her and her husband don’t want any. Is there any way this is going to work for us or does she have to have had a baby of her own? Perhaps I’ll answer that one. My first question back to you anonymous is what state are you in?

25:24
So this fact is that if a surrogate has not had her own children, doesn’t matter where the surrogate lives, the intended parents can only live in New South Wales, Queensland and South Australia. So I’m hoping Anonymous you are in one of those states as the intended parents because that’s how the laws work. It’s not the most common thing to happen for a surrogate not to have had her own kids but it does happen from time to time and surrogates often just know they can do it and they feel a calling to it. So if she’s saying that she’s probably can, she probably can but perhaps a pre-surrogacy counseling session might be really good to help her really

25:54
talk that through. Anonymous adds, they’re in New South Wales, so yes, it can be done, it is not illegal. You might read some somewhere going, oh, it’s not recommended, maybe not, but that doesn’t make it illegal. So yes, you can do it anonymous. I hope coming to this webinar and hearing that fact tonight has been very helpful for you. Another anonymous asks, for the altruistic pathway, what is in it for the surrogate? Is there any kind of power pitch to win over potential surrogates or friends we know who might be good candidates? That’s an interesting question, a power pitch.

26:24
Melissa, did you feel that you had to sort of…

26:26
sell yourselves as IPs in some ways at different times? Yeah, I think definitely when we were part of the South Australian community, we definitely felt like we had to sort of push ourselves out of our comfort zone quite a lot. My husband and I are naturally quite introverted and reserved, so that’s quite a hard thing at times. And it almost felt like it wasn’t genuine, and it just didn’t feel natural to us, which is quite hard. Obviously, you have to sort of get yourself out there, but at the same time, it’s cool, you know, it feels a bit unnatural. It’s important just to share who you are as a person and just be your true self. And I think that’s all that matters.

26:56
and you know, it’s all about, you know, connection. And I think we were really lucky with Rachel because we were just on the same page with everything and it was just such an easygoing, you know, journey, you know, like, like Rachel. Rachel’s quite introverted herself, so it works really well. And yeah, you just need to find your team. And I think that that’s when it’s going to work the best is when you have a surrogate who is very similar to you and in values and beliefs and whatnot. So I think that matters a lot. It’s definitely hard sort of putting yourself out there, especially if it’s, you know, not something you would usually do.

27:26
Do you have to do a sort of power pitch, as it were, to your own friends and family to see if there was anybody among your own existing networks that might offer? Yeah, well, we shared our story to our family and we made it sort of clear that we were wanting to connect or we were having to connect with a surrogate. Didn’t really have much luck there, unfortunately. I did have a few people, I had a cousin actually, that said, oh, I’ll be your surrogate. But I think she didn’t understand the full process involved at that time. And then she still wrote a bit more into it, she said, oh, I don’t think it’s for me,

27:56
Yeah, you still get your hopes up a bit too when you have family members that will offer or say, oh, be your surrogate with good intentions, of course, but they don’t really understand the whole process involved to being a surrogate. And yeah, so it’s quite intense and quite full on. So I completely understand the regards to that.

28:12
I think that’s another reason why we, Harry and I, were a bit worried that we weren’t going to connect with the surrogate because obviously you hear, oh, people connect, you know, obviously having a surrogate that’s a close friend to them or a relative and we had four older brothers. So, I mean, there’s no chance, you know, of having anyone to help you there. You know, all my cousins as well, they had kids of their own or they were sort of, you know, had difficulties with their pregnancy. So yeah, it’s just one of those things, I suppose. It’s definitely like a waiting game for sure. It is, right? Yes. And then anonymous,

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typed in about

28:43
costs, a ballpark figure on the cost. Perhaps before you answer that, I’ll give my data gathering, because sometimes talking money can be a bit of a personal thing. From some gathering of data asking other teams that have carried before, the range is about 35 to 90,000, with an average of about 60,000. It costs my dad 60,000, because 30,000 of that was the IVF, with no Medicare rebates. Those at the lower end there, that say the 30,000, they probably live in the same state, so they didn’t have interstate travel and accommodation.

29:13
worked first embryo transfer and they and so hence they didn’t need as much IVF and didn’t have to pay loss of wages or much and up at the 90,000 in is often more teams who are interstates or the travel there took multiple embryo transfers they might have had loss of wages to cover do you feel comfortable telling us the number for yours Melissa or in the ballpark? Yeah, Harry and I we calculated it roughly so I think it cost us all up roughly 70,000 it was actually a bit more than

29:38
we expected. Yeah, it was quite tough with the second round of IVF because we weren’t entitled to any Medicare rebates. Because as soon as you mentioned the word surrogate, that’s it, you’re not covered for Medicare whatsoever. So we didn’t know that at the time. Because our first round, we received Medicare rebates. So you have to be sort of quite careful with how you read it. But then obviously, Rachel was also seeing our fertility doctor, she started having points with him as well. So he was well aware that we have surrogate. So we couldn’t get out of it, of course. But that was quite a shock when we did the IVF round. Because we were thinking,

30:08
we would be covered with, you know, have received rebates again, but that wasn’t the case. So we’ll be unprepared with that. So it’s sort of put us off guard. And so as a side note, Surrogacy Australia, the organization, our board of volunteers, is that’s one of the things that we campaign for, like legal reforms, but also Medicare reform. We’ve got a Dr. Shardi with IVF Australia, who’s on the board, and it’s about at grassroots level, changing the definition of infertility, so that eventually we can get Medicare rebates. So watch this space.

30:38
sure in the future it will because it’s not going to break the bank for Medicare to let a few hundred people do this right? It’s definitely frustrating because it must be like a form of discrimination how you know you don’t have a uterus therefore you’re not entitled. I just think that’s ridiculous to be honest. You’ve already had such an uphill battle in your life medically and as well the two guys battle after battle it’s just discrimination. It just adds a whole…

31:00
another layer of stress that you just don’t need. Hmm, emotional, financial, the lot. Definitely. Well, as we come to the end, is there anything that you would like to add about your journey that was particularly challenging or you’re particularly proud of? I think, another thing I’d have to say when you, you know, your baby’s born and you know, I think it’s important to sort of get onto the parentage order as soon as possible and start the application process straight away. So we had…

31:23
quite, we’ve had quite a stressful process with actually applying for the parentage order. One of the main reasons was because we had a bit of delay with Harvey’s birth certificate but obviously the process is so different in each state so we assumed that the process would be the same in New South Wales, sorry, the same as South Australia but it’s very different here. So that’s one thing I definitely recommend is, you know, as soon as your baby’s born within, I think you can start applying within 30 days but not before six months. I would get onto that as soon as

31:53
it’s been so stressful. We only just submitted our application last month and there’s so much involved. And I think before we actually start the process, thought it would be a little bit easier, smooth sailing, but it hasn’t been to be honest. It’s been quite up and down and yeah, quite intense. So that’s something I definitely would recommend is, as soon as your baby’s born, start looking at applying straight away.

32:16
Was that extra complex for you because you had done the initial legal work in South Australia and so you have to do it through South Australia? But you’ve moved into state, is that what made you? It’s very confusing. So we initially thought that we could still apply for the parentage order in South Australia, but we later found out that wasn’t the case. So I think in South Australia, the process is a bit more straightforward. You don’t need to do additional post-birth counselling, whereas in New South Wales you have to, which we weren’t aware of. So it’s a bit more fiddly. But I believe the process in South Australia is longer.

32:46
but shorter in New South Wales. So I guess that’s an advantage that we have, I suppose. But yeah, very up and down. All these, these are very wanted babies, aren’t they? A lot of work. Definitely. Wonderful. Well, you’ve done it. You’ve become a mum and you know, for people listening who are brand new, this could happen to you too. And Melissa and I were talking before that, because I’ve been running these webinars for about four years and she attended one, you know, at the beginning. And so it’s- Yeah.

33:12
beautiful circular moment for me to have one of the attendees on as a co-host. So, yeah, that’s right. So for anybody listening tonight that’s at the beginning of their journey, any advice on…

33:22
that first step that they could take to start this journey for themselves? Yeah, I think sort of, I mean, obviously, you know, you sort of need to get them out there. That would be the first step. Speak to family members, just let them know that you’re looking at, you know, looking into surrogacy. I think that’s an important first step, of course. It’s I know it’s really hard to, you know, have doubts and that’s not going to happen.

33:43
But I think one thing that really helped my husband and I was that we always held into the belief that we would become parents. We always knew that it would happen eventually, even though we had lots of hurdles and lots of ups and downs in very challenging moments. I think we always knew in our heart that would come true. And I think that’s so important because that at times makes it a little bit easier to deal with when times get tough. It’s, I think just holding onto the hope is so important. That’s one thing I would think is very important to be honest is, you know, like for us, we didn’t think it was going to be

34:13
possible a lot of the time and then when it did happen it’s like oh my gosh okay dreams do come true there are amazing people out there that will help you it’s hard to believe but it is possible and these things do happen. Beautifully said I don’t think there’s any more that hold on to that hope and and it can happen. Beautiful well thank you for doing that and thank you for sharing your journey with us tonight. Yeah, race thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode to see the beautiful images mentioned head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording.

34:42
If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you’ve found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.