Episode 84 – Mel – surrogate

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Thanks for watching!

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into our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host, Anna McKay, and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org During the one hour webinars, I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer. My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia,

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and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight mums. This episode is one from the archives and was recorded in August 2022 featuring Mel. Mel birthed as a surrogate in Wollongong in January 2022 for a couple whom she knew through the brother of one of her friends. They had a little boy, Jetson, through a home birth. The two dads, Warwick and Jason, live in Sydney. Mel went on to be a surrogate again for this couple and she once again birthed at home in May 2024.

01:13
little boy Jasper. You can hear from one of the dads she carried for Warwick in the previous episode number 83. Mel’s journey with expressing breast milk is quite impressive. She did lots of direct feeding in the first few days and then pumped milk for five and a half months with Jetson and then three months for Jasper. I’ve done some data gathering with over 170 surrogates regarding pumping milk and about 33% or one-third didn’t provide any milk or colostrum.

01:42
Another 26% do it for a short while, meaning they provide colostrum and or milk for a few days, perhaps while the team are all in hospital together. And then about 41% of us do it for an extended time, which can range from a couple of weeks to many months. I myself pumped milk for nine weeks. So there is no normal. Every surrogate will do what feels right for her and her team.

02:05
Mel referenced an American Facebook group that we had both joined to help us with our milk journey and that’s called Exclusively Pumping Surrogates because pumping milk as a surrogate is different to pumping milk when you’re the mother and the primary care of the baby. I’ll put a link for that group in the show notes. I hope you enjoy this episode and for more laughs as I mentioned listen to the previous episode when I chat to one of the dads Warwick. So Mel tell us who’s in this photo and what’s going on here.

02:32
Well, this is our maternity shoot with Warwick, Jason and myself. Beautiful. Do you happen to remember how far along you might have been in the pregnancy then? It was within the last month or two. I think there’s maybe four weeks to go there about. Yeah, so a nice baby bump there. Yeah. And looks like there’s a good chemistry dynamic with your team with some good laughter going on. Yeah, Warwick’s always got a few jokes to tell. He does. So just some background for people.

02:56
Warwick’s been a friend of mine over the years that I’ve met through the surrogacy community. And so that’s how I sort of got to know Mel a bit on the sidelines too. So it’s lovely to hear her side of the story here tonight too. And who’s in this photo? So that’s again Warwick and Jason and my daughter Xanthia and my husband Steve. Beautiful. And then all having, they’ve got their bellies out too, have they? I don’t know whose idea that was. I think it was Jason’s idea to do that. I could, big laughter going on, that’s for sure. Yeah.

03:26
And then just another photo from that day. A bit windy, was it? Yes, it was very windy that day. Are you happy with these photos? Yeah, they’re good. We always had a few good dad jokes to get us all laughing.

03:38
It was well practiced. Yes, well practiced. Now we can put them into action. And he does. Excellent. He’s such a dag. And then here we go. This is birthday. Yep. Tell us a bit about the birth then, Mel. Let me ask you some questions. This looks like a home birth. Was it a planned home birth? Yes. And you had midwives with you? Yeah, there was two midwives there. So I spent most of the birth in the shower using up all the hot water. So Warwick and Jason and Steve were madly filling the pool.

04:08
with saucepans full of boiled water.

04:11
Oh, sounds like call the midwife series like back in England or something. Not that they probably water birds, but grab some hot water and towels. Right. That’s what you do. I’m trying to anticipate the questions others would have. Was have you home birthed your other kids or was it due to COVID or hospitals? What was your reason for going down this path? Something you wanted to do? The reason was COVID. I mean, if COVID gave a blessing, this was it. So interesting. Yeah, it was. It was an incredible experience to be able to birth at home and to have everyone there.

04:40
was there as well so yeah it was it was really good because in a hospital like I imagine with all the restrictions my daughter certainly wouldn’t have been able to be there let alone a photographer maybe not even the boys so yes all right so yes this is January this year and so we’ve had here’s me thinking I birthed in 2020 I thought oh we’re going to be the year of the covid birth just us in 2020 no no here we are still 22 having restrictions and things like that in place there so yeah I mean what a magical experience for your daughter to experience too how that might influence

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and what she wants to happen there. So she got to experience Jetson going in and Jetson coming out. There we go. Oh, there for the whole journey. So the boys obviously live in Sydney and you’re in New Wollongong. How was the logistics of the birth? I know the answer to this, but…

05:29
Well, they were staying in a suburb five minutes away. So on the night they got the call, it’s time to come over. And they were here in five minutes flat, pretty much. Yes. And then did they stay with you in that week after birth or something like that? They stayed at my house for three days, I think. And then they went back to their apartment and then they were here for three weeks. Yeah. I think I could be wrong on the timing, but I think about three weeks. But they were here beforehand as well.

05:58
leading up to the birth. And I think that’s really valuable for people listening tonight, if you’re, so you weren’t an interstate team, but you know, a bit of distance between you to hear how the IPs are preparing to come and support you and help out in bit before birth and to stay a few weeks after. So that’s really helpful for surrogates to hear about, Oh, that’s normal. I can ask that, can I? And that for IPs to go, Oh yeah, that’s what we should do. And they’ll probably want to do it. They wanted to be near you, I’m sure.

06:23
They booked it for me, you know, it was one of those things where I didn’t know I wanted it till I had it. And then once I had it, it was like, yeah, awesome. I was really glad they were here. Cool. Just to spend time with them as people or for the particular supports they helped you with? Well, there’s always, I always enjoy spending time with them. But I think as well to be able to go through the post birth, it’s hard to explain. Just have them be close if I needed. And it became very clear very quickly how much they.

06:53
cared about me and making sure I was okay. So that was that was the part I didn’t know I wanted until it was there. And then I was immensely grateful that they were so just caring. They just cared and that’s all that mattered. So yeah. That’s beautiful. And I wonder if the people listening going, but of course.

07:12
Of course they would care, but that’s how you phrase that. I think it’s actually quite common of surrogate. We undersell ourselves going, oh, do you actually care about me? Like we all wanted to make a baby, we did that. But they’re like, we’re not just here for the baby. We’re here for you as our friend, as we’re married and birthed. We care about you, we wanna make sure you’re okay. And is it the type of thing that by catching up with them, you know, and being close to them, you didn’t have to tell them all the stuff that was happening. Well, no, you could, but it wasn’t like you had to then write in text message or tell them on the phone, you were just chatting.

07:42
how your body’s ups and downs were going because you were just there a lot. I’m pretty sure I vocalized the ups and downs in text message plenty. But they were also there like aside from

07:53
COVID stopping us from having catch-ups during the pregnancy. Like once Jetson was born, they were just there, so yeah. Yeah. And so then you had these photos done a few days post-birth, is that right? Yeah, the guys organized to have a photographer to do their newborn shoots. And yeah, I’m really glad they did. They came up beautifully. They did. And I’ve seen the photo where there’s the poop everywhere. It turns out. Doesn’t every newborn shoot have poop everywhere? Yes, and so it should, right? And lots of hands involved.

08:22
to you, bring this in the office as well. Yeah I really like that picture, it’s on my wall at work that one. That’s nice and it’s like how do you capture Surrogacy in a photo right? I bet you need a lot of extra hands I think that’s what it’s about. That one’s really good, I liked that one yeah. Good idea and now what’s going on in this photo? Is this something you’ve created?

08:40
I always do a bit of scrapbooking and I gifted Jetson. He was due on Christmas Day, but of course he was a few days late, so he didn’t come. He had to wait a bit to get his gift because I had to do a bit of scrapbooking in the front. In one of them, there’s a bag. The night he was born, we had dinner from a place called His Boy Elroy’s and his name’s Jetson. So from the Jetsons to George Jetson. So anyway, we had dinner that night.

09:10
scrapbooking at the back. Beautiful. You can see it says down the bottom, his boy Elroy. Oh yes, right. I wonder if my mouse can do it then. Yeah. Excellent. It’s nice to have all those connections and fun.

09:20
there. And I think this is interesting to see this is the gift that surrogates sometimes want to give you want to capture it and you’re the one saying I think I read it on one of them you’re saying you know what an honor to hold you while you grew you know you’re saying thank you. Yeah. So it’s interesting for IPs and surrogates to hear this. Yeah. I know you expressed milk for um quite a while post-birth. I did. And you couldn’t is it because you couldn’t eat soft cheeses during pregnancy is that why this is significant? No this was my husband and I took a road trip a couple days

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when it was a few weeks afterwards, after the boys went home, we were just like, right, let’s just have a big change in scenery. So we jumped in the car and we figured out how to make this press pump work via 12 volt charge. And once we’d figured that out, we hit the road and yeah, that’s just us in the car. I think in the one on the left side, we’re driving along. One on the right, we’re actually pulled up and I was just like, oh, let’s have a snack.

10:17
while we were like pumped. So we got quite professional at you know getting it all back into the esky and the back of the car and yes the things you learn. And so how long did you express milk for? Five months. Did you hear that everyone? Five months. What a woman Mel. I’m not sure how many go that long. Well I think a third of us go for longer than a couple of weeks and so then it’s somewhere between a couple of weeks to a couple of months. So I think you’re at the far end. So

10:47
I had some expert help. I rang my friend Anna who was able to help me out.

10:56
but yeah, I had something to prove to myself and I proved it and I’m good now. And what was that that you were trying to prove? Was it the length of time? That I could do it. I struggled with my own two kids, so just that I could do it. And I learnt more about breastfeeding doing this than I did during my own pregnancies thanks to a Facebook group, so.

11:17
There was no Facebook when I had my kids. Yeah, that’s right. And not for sharing that sort of stuff. So well done. That’s awesome. And an amazing thing, and cool, did that feel rushed or slow for you for that two years or about? At times it felt slow. At other times it was like, whoa, here we go. And once you’re on that train, that pregnancy train doesn’t really stop, does it? Yeah, no. And then how was the pregnancy perhaps in comparison?

11:43
to your others and obviously we always get older each time we’re pregnant so it gets a bit harder on our bodies. Was it hard? Yeah well I mean my daughter was 13 when Jetson was born so it had been some time since the last one. It was very different to my pregnancies so aches and pains I had when I was pregnant with my daughter I didn’t have this time around and then other things were harder that I didn’t have before so it was just different. Yeah swings and roundabouts.

12:13
distance between the guys and then COVID restrictions, did it mean they could attend some of the appointments or there was you didn’t see them much in the pregnancy? What was that like? Well that was the beauty of having the midwife, the private midwife, so they were able to get, I don’t know who the clearance was through, I don’t know whether it was just through service, New South Wales or something, but as long as they had a appointment, what’s it called when you get like in a message, like a… Like a tech con?

12:41
Confirmation? Yeah, confirmation of an appointment. Then they were allowed to travel. So they could come down for the appointments with the midwife. So she was able to, I think once we did a video consult, other than that, they were here for all of the appointments, I think. I don’t think they missed any. So that’s nice. They even got into one of the ultrasounds. So initially we were told one parent could come into that.

13:07
20 week one. And so we did and then we kind of thought, I don’t think they would have cared if we were all there. So at the next one, we all just went and there was no problems. Good. It’s special to be able to share that with them along the way. Yeah, definitely. Did you guys know you were having a boy? I did. But they didn’t? They didn’t. Did they know that you knew? Not until five minutes after he was born.

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And how did you know? How did I know? We did a, what’s the blood test called? The Harmony? No. The ND, no the um come on type it in someone that knows. It’s the one that you can find out gender as well as checking for the down syndrome and stuff. Yeah yeah that one. So they did that test and the doctor ticked yes to knowing the sex but um.

13:53
Nobody wanted to know that. So then the results got sent to my doctor, which then got sent to the midwife, but the doctor didn’t send them straight to the midwife. They sent them to me. Yes. And then once the cut got to me, then I had to keep it to myself. All right, did you want to know? Oh, I did not necessarily. Not if I had to keep it a secret. Yes. But yeah. There you go. Is it the NIPT or PTI? Yeah, NIPT. Yeah, that’s it. There we go.

14:23
Thank you for sharing that with us. And those that are listening, if you’ve got any specific questions for Mel, ask, you can always shoot the anonymous function too to ask too, but I’ll keep going with asking some questions. So yes, the boys could come to the appointments, but did it mean then…

14:36
you couldn’t spend as much time together with them? Was there something you feel that you may missed out on a little bit in the pregnancy? I think that they would have preferred to have come and spent more time with us. They would cook meals and have them prepped ready and they’d send them, bring them down when they came for appointments and stuff. So they still like gave support in that regard. It’s hard to say, like I’m not, I’m not their mind reader. So I don’t know what they would have done differently. But I imagine we would have just had just more time

15:06
along the beach or, do you know, like even when they did come, you couldn’t go anywhere. So, do you know, like just little things like that. Yeah. And so in some ways that’s when you’re a surrogate and you sign up for this sort of thing, imagining what that pregnancy is going to be like, that could have been a bit different to how you imagined it. Yeah. Yeah. But all in all, I think it was all pretty good really. Good. And so then post-birth, did you have many up and down struggles as your body adjusted to like with the baby or? Well, I actually think the breastfeeding helped with that and the expressing.

15:36
I think I breastfed for the first, I don’t know if it was the first day or two or three days or somewhere there, maybe the first three days while they were here just to get the milk going. And then when I saw them, if I was like at their place, I would breastfeed Jetson then as well, and then express and you know, a little bit of everything. And I actually found that being able to breastfeed him actually allowed me to, because I’d feel, I’d feel it. I’d have like an attachment

16:06
And I’d be like, yeah, but hang on a minute. This just isn’t quite right. And that would allow me, right, I’m going to step back now and I’m going to express more and, you know, I’m going to step away. And then, you know, something else might happen. I think there was one time he was crying and I’m like getting all these emotions of like, oh my God, I can’t calm the baby down, you know? What’s happening, like? And then I’m like, hang on a minute. Hang on a minute, this is not my baby. Here you go.

16:32
And then, and then I stepped back again and it kind of happened quite naturally to just, and I mean, praise to the guys, they allowed it to happen and they allowed me to have that. And it was just so natural to, to step away. It was really good actually. That’s awesome to hear. Yeah. As you say, those moments, it’s not like planned. We went, we will do this at two and a half weeks and this, it’s just something happened at a catch up. And then you were able to reflect and make those, those adjustments. I know exactly what you mean

17:02
It’s like your body knows this is the baby I grew when particularly when you’re feeding them. And even if you’ve got it in your arms and you’re feeding it a bottle or something. And I felt this deep sense of peace come over my body. Each time I had those really intimate connections, even if I wasn’t looking at Baker the whole time, I was just talking to the dads or the other adults or people in the room. But my body needed that. And I think then it allowed me to feel settled. And then in the days and weeks coming, I could then take the next step in my, I’m moving on.

17:29
It’s okay, because I had that. So I think what I’m gathering between our two stories there, for those listening, is that you need to be spending a fair bit of time together in those first few weeks post-birth. I mean, you don’t have to live together for the whole time.

17:41
very regularly seeing each other in those first few weeks is quite helpful, isn’t it? Yep. Yep. So during your journey, did you have much support from other surrogates? Or like talking to other women who had done it, or you didn’t feel the need for that? Well, again, COVID meant that there weren’t many catch-ups and I didn’t know many surrogates because I mean, COVID was there from the beginning. As I said, I reached out to Warwick, you know, 2nd of January, what is it? 3rd of January, 2020. And then when did COVID hit?

18:11
March that year? March, April, May, that sort of time. So there’s been big gaps of just COVID that’s made it hard to meet other surrogates, to go to catch-ups where there could be other IPs that, you know, or whatever, just to meet people within the community. So yeah, you know, as far as support, I don’t know, I guess it was mainly just the guys and I did see a psychologist throughout.

18:39
So yeah. Awesome. Let me just ask that. Do you remember how many sessions you roughly had in the pregnancy then? Was it like, did you go, I’m going to have it monthly or it was just as I need? I believe, I believe I had a Medicare care plan. Yep. So because I had the Medicare care plan, the visits were, and we’d already gone over the Medicare rebate threshold thing. So I think it was costing like eight bucks a session. So I was all for monthly or as often as I needed. So I think, I think it was monthly throughout the pregnancy.

19:08
and then once he was born, I think up until I finished the expressing. Wonderful. But again, it was all like eight bucks, eight bucks, eight bucks, eight bucks. It was nothing. But I think even if people didn’t have that or whatever, I think it’s really valuable to hear not only did the IPs pay for it, but you valued it as a team that this is really important.

19:29
and post birth. So I think you were getting the support, you’re getting professional support, just having that somebody to talk through it with that’s a bit removed from it and you might have your bad days and it’s not saying it’s not like I wish I hadn’t done this it’s just but some days are hard. Yeah. Have you got some takeaways meld or was there something in particular that was more challenging than you than you were expecting? I don’t really have any takeaways. As we said before don’t do surrogacy during COVID. Yeah don’t do surrogacy during COVID. Are you an

19:59
Now for either midwifery led care or home births. God yes. Yeah. That continuity of care from the midwife appointments, the length of the appointments often and that ability to just call and ask questions. Both the guides had access to the midwife too. They could ask questions too. I think that it created an opportunity to discuss different things after each visit. And then, you know, if we were just, you know, rocking up the hospital to get weighed and you know, take your blood pressure, there’s no room for that conversation after,

20:29
our midwife would always ask different questions and it was always more involved. Definitely. And also that sense of you didn’t have to explain yourself every time to a new person at the hospital or whatever, it was that same person that knew your team dynamic I guess. Yep, they knew what to expect, they knew what was happening.

20:48
Other side random question, in your own personal private life with friends and family, well I guess you know some of the people knew Warwick through his sister and them in your life, did you have any negativity that you had to face through your work or oh okay in what ways?

21:02
The first instance of negativity I had was, I was very early on in the pregnancy, I think I was still in the first trimester and I was trying to find a pair of pants to wear. And I walked into a shop and I was very specific, I needed a pair of pants that had a zipper so I could use a belly belt. They needed to be black for work and all the rest of it. This woman was being quite helpful.

21:24
And I told her I was pregnant and why I wanted the pants, the zipper and all the rest of it. And she’d made a comment about, you know, oh, you know, is it your first or, I don’t know, some comment about it being mine. And I’d said, oh, it’s actually not mine. And she was just like, oh. And then she just like completely shut down. I’m like, why do you then? Right. Was it because you were caring for two guys or just because you were a surrogate? She didn’t know that part. So she just…

21:52
She just shut down. So I don’t know what the go was there. Maybe she’d watched the Handmaid’s Tales. Yeah, maybe. Where’s this world going?

21:59
And that’s hard to know. And it’s interesting that interaction has stayed with you. Did you have any others like that? No, not of strangers, but my boss was incredibly non-supportive of it. Yeah, she’s a funny one, but anyway. And so another classic question, did you get leave from your work, maternity leave through your workplace? Yep. And so for anybody new listening tonight, so provided you meet the work test there, you also get the government paid parental leave too. And so do the parents too. That’s the only double-dipping that seems to happen in surrogacy.

22:29
that two people get the paper and to leave for the one child, which is nice. So roughly how long did you have off work before you returned? I had the full 18 weeks. Like I would have probably preferred to go back a bit sooner, but the expressing kind of overrode that. I wanted to continue with the expressing. And then I think I expressed for maybe a few weeks after I was back at work as well, just in my lunch break. It got a bit much.

22:52
Yeah. And so then that was the final thing. That was that was why I stopped in the end because it was just too much at work and my body had had enough. So, yeah, we stopped. Well done. And because I know that when we spoke one time, it was that you weren’t quite ready. And so you did go back to work. And I wasn’t ready, but my psychologist was suggesting that it was time to stop because it was no longer about me and all this other stuff. And it was just like, I think that our conversation just helped me, you know, understand that it was what I wanted

23:22
Okay to continue. Yes you’re allowed to there’s no rules in this you can write the rules as you go and so for me too I think yeah that’s an example of it’s helpful to have support of somebody who’s done something similar so I was helpful because I had expressed milk for quite some time too type of thing so it’s nice to find people that you can have some parallels with in this journey. So I think this is a first where we’ve had no questions Mel and I don’t think it looks like we’re going to get any. I feel like I’ve asked a lot and I hope there’s been a nice variety to

23:52
Any last parting words then before I sum it up or if we covered it all? We covered it all. Any words like I guess we just wish luck to then in any new IPs and surrogates listening tonight to give it a go? Yeah, yeah good luck and happy chats. Happy chats that you’re doing for people you don’t know or for people that you’re considering and even if it takes you a year to consider offering to people I think that’s okay too you don’t have to rush in the moment that you see somebody go we need a surrogate you can sit on that for a while and think about it and do it when it’s right the right time in your life. Yeah.

24:22
I think if I had have reached out to Warwick way back when it would have been a lot longer process I think as well. Like I wouldn’t have been ready, they would have had to wait, you know, I don’t know. Yeah that’s true because when you were ready you were ready. Yes, yeah, would you do it again? There we go, but you’re glad you’ve done it one? Yes, yes. Well done, beautiful answer, good.

24:43
Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.