Episode 80 – Bec – surrogate

00:00
Thanks for watching!

00:13
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one-hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents, there are opportunities to ask questions, and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

00:40
This episode, recorded in December 2024, features Beck. Beck from Backus March in Victoria is a single mum to five and has been a surrogate twice. She birthed a girl in 2016 and a boy in 2024 for two different sets of IPs, each who were previously strangers. She is an admin for one of the national Facebook groups and organizes catch-ups locally in Melbourne. Come and hear from Beck about her observations from her nearly 10 years in the surrogacy community.

01:08
what it promises and what it’s really like. In this episode, Beck uses some abbreviations. I am is intended mother, IF intended father and IPs intended parents. This was a lovely chat with Beck and since it was a long one, I won’t summarize the episode, but let you have a listen. Beck has been an elder of the community since I joined. So for me, it was an honor to have her share her time with us on this webinar.

01:31
Also a proud moment to be able to share with her what I have created for the community in terms of these free webinars which I’ve been running for nearly four years. Bec is all about paying it forward wherever we can in life. I hope you enjoy this episode.

01:45
Bec, you’ve been in the community for many, many years. You’ve had two surrogacy journeys and in between you’ve had two keeper children. But take us back to the beginning. Why did you wanna be a surrogate in the first place and how did you find your IPs? So I’m gonna put a disclaimer first. I wouldn’t promote this as the way that anyone should probably dive into surrogacy, but this is the way that I run my life. So it worked for me. So at the time I had three of my own kids, like you said, or well two actually, and I was heavily pregnant with my third,

02:15
Yeah, sorry, about eight months pregnant I was, I think. And at the time I was married, so I said, you know what, I can probably go again. And at the time he said, nah, not for me, which is okay. And I just said, that’s all right, I’ll have someone else’s. And so I joined Australian surrogacy community. Sorry.

02:36
which I, some crazy person back in the day thought that I would be a great help in the admin team and I’m still there and hopefully I’m helping somewhat. I’m not as good as.

02:46
some others that are on there, but that’s okay. I’ve got this feeling back when I was part of that team. I wonder if we were part of the team that tapped you on the shoulder. I can’t remember now. You might’ve because I feel like you taught me the ropes and then you might’ve stepped away. Yes, that rings a bell. Yes. So that many moons ago. And, um, and I, I love the idea that I’m paying it forward somehow, even if it’s just declining scam, you know, requests or whatever it is, it’s, I’m still somehow helping. So, um, anyway, so I joined.

03:16
community, that community, and I met my first IPs on that community. So that’s actually both.

03:23
kind of through that community. So it’s given me a lot and therefore also I find it really important to give back. Hence I’m still around nine years on. Met some IPs from Canberra. So Interstate to me, because I’m in Victoria. Chatted on there, organized a catch up. Can I ask, so you read their post or something. Was there something in particular that drew you to that set of IPs? And were you looking specifically for hetero couples or just whoever you felt the click with? Nah, whoever I felt the click with, to be fair, I didn’t read their post.

03:53
Again, this worked for me, but it’s not probably ideal for everybody. At the same time that I joined the community, I joined the Surrogate’s only page and back then there wasn’t kind of that waiting period in the community to join. So then I get in and like most newbies, I had the rose colored glasses on. I feel like you handed those as soon as you joined the community and really pumped to like be helping someone, yada, yada, want to get moving. So I did a post in the Surrogate’s only page.

04:23
me and said she was chatting to these IPs from Canberra and went through, got up to her medical, I believe it was, and realized that her health issues weren’t compatible basically. And she had to deal with her own stuff. So she was not able to go the whole, you know, to go even to transfer and things like that. Maybe I would want to chat to them because then essentially they’re kind of left with no one. Anyway, so then she gave me their

04:53
I can’t remember a million years ago, but I feel like I probably, I would have reached out to them, I would say, you know, and then we started that conversation. Um, and then we organized a catch up in Melbourne where they came. So obviously we could meet that was about three months, roughly from memory, from when we started talking to when I first met them, this was their.

05:11
going to be their first child and they had four embryos. Yeah, and I don’t think it was long after I met them in Melbourne that I offered to BSR yet. So probably getting to know them for me probably was under six months. Yep. And then from memory, in the next part of that journey, the counseling, the league, was the IVF was really quick for your team and then getting to the point of embryo transfer. Is that right? She was born in

05:35
the March of 2016, which would have meant that transfer happened approximately June of 15. If we’re working backwards correctly, I reckon it was about the start of 15. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, probably like six months, like within six months we had it all done. Ready to go. So from the time you first reached out to them until the time Surobub was born was under two years. Would have been under two years. Yeah. Yes. And I remember at the time you’ve often been my measuring stick for the quickest journey.

06:05
I feel bad when you say that and you’ve said it multiple times. Probably like it’s on the faster side. Absolutely. I feel like though, since you and I have been around for a long time now that I’m not the fastest. No agreed. And, and we’ve also talked about sometimes if you know, you know, and things fall into place. And if it does work first, embryo transfer too. And sometimes you get lucky. Even though there might be bumps along the way, it just still works. And it’s no guarantee that you could take a year chatting and getting to know each other, and it’s still going to necessary.

06:35
be any better. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Again, I was very fortunate that embryo transfer stuck the first time. So we were super fortunate that way. And like you said in your spiel, I personally had never experienced IVF for my own children. So come the times that we are transferring, I had.

06:53
the soon to be Nana in the waiting room with my third keeper at the time, because obviously he was born by that time and he was 11 months old. And so she’s entertaining him in the waiting room. We were just really fortunate, which is.

07:07
You know, great, great for them. Great for me too, to be fair. Good. I’m going to go to sharing photos now. Yeah. And you’ve got a photo here of the wedding from those first IPs and you’re heavily pregnant. And so does that mean that you got pregnant with surrogate bub around the time your third child was turning one? Yeah. So, yes. So he was 11 months old and I fell pregnant with surrogate bub. Yep. Yes. Amazing. Yep. So then the lady.

07:29
The ginormous goddess on the left is Sandy. So she’s the egg donor. So I was 20 weeks pregnant here. It was like smack in the middle, halfway for us. This was the first time that I had met Sandy. And obviously when I saw her, I thought, dear Lord, this baby is going to be a giant. And I’m so tiny, so I’m not sure how this is going to work. Really quickly, can I tell you a funny story? Obviously at the wedding, the IPs are the center of attention naturally. So I go to the wedding

07:59
husband and I stuck to Sandy like glue because you know we have something in common one we knew no one and two we shared a part of I shared a part of her essentially so it was a very surreal feeling go walking into the wedding and obviously being the fattest person there but everyone knowing me and I don’t know anyone yes you know so people are coming up saying oh you’re doing such an amazing thing back and you know isn’t it so lovely and you know I am and I have they’re so fortunate blah blah

08:29
I don’t know who you are. Yes. And one of the bridesmaids actually from this wedding went on because she met me, because she got to quiz me like a second time around when I flew back to Canberra for the baby shower, sparked her interest and she actually became a surrogate twice for siblings. Yes, that’s Sarah, isn’t it? Yeah. Yes, yes. But there you go. So yes, your story sparked. It sparked something. It did. Yeah. And so then I think we’ve got another photo here

08:59
sorry, bub, once she’s born, but also one of my favourite photos in surrogacy, because people have to look twice to understand what’s happening in this photo. So the black and white photo is you pregnant, yes? Yes, I love that one. Who doesn’t love getting their kid off? Me. And there I am, in front of a camera and it’s been on Facebook a lot. That’s unfortunate. That’s me, obviously, on the left, pre-baby. And then that’s I am with baby. You know, essentially those timeline progress pregnancy shots that people get. I just thought it would be a really nice keepsake. I’m

09:29
FYO, that’s one of my hobbies, not necessarily taking them, but forcing my children to have them taken and keep them. So I knew nothing about this. So I did a maternity shot photo shoot, hence I did it. And I teed up the photographer, I bought the IPs, like a newborn photo shoot.

09:48
essentially like as a present. And I’d worded Steve, the photographer up that, you know, I want to do this kind of before and after. And ideally we both wear black underwear because the black and white shot, you know, it’s just going to look so amazing. This is in my mind. And so I am got there and I don’t think she was as clearly not as keen, maybe as I was to get my full kid off. Hence the tank top. Not that it matters. I think the photo still represents exactly what it should. And it just happened to be that the way I was looking over my shoulder with no

10:18
me when I had mine and same for her looking down, it almost looks like we’re actually looking at one another. So. Absolutely. It’s a beautiful photo. It really sums up surrogacy. It’s like, here’s the pregnant belly with the baby and now here’s baby on the outside in mum’s arms. Where the baby belongs. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s a beautiful photo. So great, great vision that you had there.

10:39
And then the one on the right is PO at parentage order. So, bub there is approximately five months old. Yes. I don’t know, I just, I wanted to share that. So, because they were interstate, one of my non-negotiables was that they stayed anywhere in Victoria and they chose the suburb right next to mine. So that’s convenient for one week. Just so that obviously I could bond with baby and see them as a family. Also, my kids could see baby because naturally they’ve seen me, you know, get bigger and bigger and bigger for nine months.

11:09
At the time, my husband and I worked super duper hard with my kids. So I had a daughter who was five and a half who went from kinder to school, like during the pregnancy, and I had a three-year-old son and an almost one-year-old child, you know, and plus boys, they don’t really care so much.

11:27
So it was more about my daughter’s girls being so inquisitive and yada yada. Uh, my husband at the time and I had worked super hard, almost like brainwashing, I guess at, you know, this is not a sibling and you don’t call this baby a brother or a sister and you don’t refer to them as your cousin and blah, blah, blah. And also cause they live interstate, there’s a high chance that we won’t see the baby often or ever again. It was more just to prepare her for that. So anyway, they stayed for a week, which was really lovely. I saw them six out of seven days.

11:57
And this parentage order was the first time I’d seen sorrow bubs since birth, basically. Yeah. So was that how you anticipated how much you would see them or you thought it might be more, like during the pregnancy and then post-birth? I think during pregnancy, I would have assumed that I would have seen them more. Again, it is what it is. At the time, you know, I would get a bit doom and gloom about it because I wanted to see them more. I’ve tried my best at the times that we did catch up, given that they lived interstate.

12:27
only so much I could share of the pregnancy, you know, over the phone. And so I really, I tried my best.

12:35
at the time when I did see them to encourage I am to, you know, touch my tummy and, and hope that baby would move at that moment. And, you know, I would always try my best to update them the best I could about, um, baby’s activity inside. And, you know, if I was having any cravings and try to make them feel as included as possible. Yeah. I mean, you know, you would, I would imagine I would have wanted to see them all the time, given that it was their baby. It was never my baby.

13:05
like to think if I was in I am shoes that I wouldn’t feel like I missed out on the pregnancy given that you’re not carrying it yourself. Of course I would have loved to see them more often but again we were we were interstate couples you know naturally you have the challenge of time off work, cost of travel, cost of accommodation you know all those things essentially come into play. Definitely so then ultimately so that was journey one.

13:30
and then life goes on a little bit. They start to settle into their life. And then you then got pregnant with…

13:37
Keeper number four? Yes, so then I saw them obviously then, and Bubz was about five months old. And then I saw them, they came to Melbourne at some point within the first year of Bubz’s life. So I saw them then, you know, physically. And then I went to Bubz’s first birthday. This is kind of a reason why the photos are so old, because then COVID hit and all these sorts of things. So I haven’t seen them really in person

14:07
and she is eight years old and I probably haven’t seen them in person for about six years. So yeah, so we talk, you know, every now and then again, life happens. We are still in contact, which I’m super fortunate for because like you say, they can, they could cut us whenever they want to essentially.

14:23
When you say talk, do you mean like physically on the phone or sending messages and photos? No, so sending messages. So we have a group chat, all four of us. So Sandy, the egg donor, myself and both IPs, we have a group chat. So we’ll check in, you know, every now and then it’s quite sporadic. You know, I’m grateful for that. I’m grateful that there’s some kind of contact.

14:53
eight years on, I’m grateful that it’s something. Yes, and that sounds like a bit like a classic surrogate feeling grateful for what you get. And it’s perhaps isn’t the ideal. So then that probably leads us nicely into talking about the fact that you went again. So in between Journey 1 and 2, you had a fifth child, a keeper. So the little girl there. So in this photo that we’re looking at here is you with your five children. And then marriage also fell apart. Yeah. But you still had an itch, I guess, to be honest, one more time. So. Yeah.

15:23
Yeah. So it’s, um, I would never say never to anything. And after the first time, I always felt like I would definitely go again and be a surrogate, obviously went again myself, but, um, go again as a surrogate. And it was certainly never to erase the first journey to better the first journey. Never. I’m very big in my life. One, obviously of being her role model, a decent one, hopefully, um, to my children, especially now that, you know, it’s just me and them. I’m very big on paying.

15:53
forward, whatever it might be, you know, it’s chucking a few dollars at a busker. It’s, you know, I don’t know, buying a sandwich for a homeless person. It’s you work at the kids canteen at the school, don’t you? No, not now. So so I did. Oh, that’s right. You dad and you were doing that. But that that yeah, that yeah, so the school closed that canteen in term two. So I had been running it for two years. I worked there three years ago for one year with a different company. And then my dad and I created our own company. And we took it over for two years.

16:23
and then since term three I have been working as an LS slash ES.

16:30
So an integration aid, whatever label you put on that at a high school. So that’s interesting, but extremely low socio-economics families, some unfortunate stuff that just, it breaks me daily, you know, and you just want to scoop them up, bring them home and cook them burnt toast. But, um, you know, so that’s a classic surrogate. Where do we find surrogates? They’re often the givers, aren’t they? Always, always. So, you know, we, you know, that for me working there, I really love it. And I think I’m half decent at it.

17:00
Okay. Get along with the people I work with, which is also awesome, but you know, again, given just demographic and all that, that’s at the school, essentially that’s another way for me to pay it forward, you know, to try and hopefully make a difference with those kids. So us surrogates, we are givers and.

17:16
We walk around all the time with our cup half empty. And the way that it gets filled is seeing other people happy. I think it’s certainly for me at the end of the day, I am just craving my recliner. So I can crash on the bed on the couch till 1am and drag myself to bed, you know, but knowing that my kids have had a good day or, you know, my youngest daughter has drawn me a picture or my, um, seven year old, you know, gives me a cuddle and says, you’re the best mom ever like that. That’s perfect to me. So, yeah.

17:46
This photo is obviously of my second journey. I’m probably like 34, 34 weeks in that. Take us back to the beginning of the second journey then. You’d been still part of the community and so clearly you hadn’t ruled out going again. And so I was going- No, never. And I knew in our chats over the years, you know, from time to time, it was that you could therefore keep your eye out for IPs that, you know, might spark your interest. So this is this, um, hetero couple had had one child and so they needed somebody to help them have a sibling.

18:16
which was you. Do you remember what drew you to the second set of IPs? And then also, did you have plans for what changes you wanted to make in Journey 2? I think we all get a bit tough and we all get a bit over, over keen and think definitely the first one had X, Y, Z that, you know, maybe let us down, maybe we didn’t even do. So I’m going to implement them the second time, or I’m going to make them my non-negotiables. So you mentioned before, I am the person in the background for Melbourne,

18:46
that helps organize a super dear friend of mine. We organize dinners, not probably as regularly as we should, but again life happens. I met I am at two dinners in Melbourne actually. She is a part of the community. So again, we’re circling back to how the community has given back to me so much. But I actually physically met her at two dinners. The first one we were just kind of chatting on and off, both live in Victoria, so that’s a bonus.

19:15
close to each other, probably within an hour’s drive. Okay. Um, and so that also was ideal for me. So from my first journey to my second, again, it was nothing, it was never about bettering it. But for me, I really felt like I had lived and learnt lessons like that I could have done better, that maybe I had hoped the IPs would, you know, bring to the table more, whatever. So again, I was open to hetero or same sex, that didn’t bother me, or single, that nothing like that ever bothered me.

19:45
I probably, I wasn’t tunnel visioned onto a local journey. So when the IP and the surrogate live in the same state, generally they’re considered a local journey or a team, sorry. So, um, I wasn’t tunnel visioned on that. However, obviously when we got chatting and we just, and it seemed quite free flowing and you know, again, we live relatively close, yada yada, she was able to birth her son biologically.

20:10
naturally all that sort of thing. And then unfortunately, um, suffered, um, a form of cancer afterwards. And then due to the treatment needed a surrogate to expand the family. So it was easy. You know, I was like, yeah, this, this could be all right. And then we happened to see each other at the next dinner. So that was it. Like it wasn’t a, a teed up plan or anything like that. Just before the second.

20:31
dinner, if my memory serves me, I got a message, a messenger from mum from a mother’s group 10 years prior, because by this time, my one year old from their first journey was almost 10. And so a mum from his mother’s group randomly messaged me and we don’t talk, right? We’re like, we’re friends on Facebook and like every now and then a post, but nothing other than that. And she messaged me and said, Oh, my hairdresser has a client who is looking for a surrogate,

21:01
Can you be one or can you point them in the right direction? And I was like, okay, you know, happy for you to pass on my number, buy the hairdresser and you know, maybe I can help out.

21:11
Again, like, you know, and I’m listing, there’s the community, there’s surrogacy, Australia, yada, yada, yada, if they need a, you know, um, embryos. Cause I wasn’t obviously, I wasn’t aware if they had eggs or not eggs, whatever. Anyway, so it turns out that I am messaged, uh, message me, I believe. And then we clicked very quickly in text message that we had met at the dinner at the first dinner, the first time we had met. And I was like, oh.

21:37
Oh my God, you’re the person and we have this mutual hairdressing client that goes to the same hairdresser as you. Like it’s just so bizarre how the world works. Yeah. Sometimes nice to have those little funny stories to connect you. It’s almost like there’s a bit of a background check going on that people know the same people. Yeah, absolutely. So then the next round of dinner was soon after our text messages had started. And obviously I was saying, you know, there’s the community and she at the time was like, yeah, I’m already in that and you know, all this stuff. And then I said, yeah, happy to have a chat, you know, at the dinner or all that.

22:07
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then we just kind of continued chatting from the second round of the dinner. And then, you know, soon after that, I went tonight to their house, actually. And I took some of my kids and, you know, met her son, met her husband, all things like that. I think surrogacy is, it can be very full on. So if anyone’s listening and they’re brand new, it can be really full on if, if you match with strangers, because for both of mine and, and from what I’ve heard of and witnessed other journeys.

22:37
is that you, like I haven’t spoken to these people before and then all of a sudden I’m going to speak to them daily for nine months. It’s a lot and I don’t, as most people would, I don’t talk to my best friend daily. It can be a lot and it can be daunting and the expectation of us to IPs and the expectation that IPs have of us is that we’re going to be super open about our lives and you

23:07
that you don’t want to, I think. I think it should be fine that you don’t want to necessarily share everything. Obviously, pregnancy related, when that time comes, you share naturally, because it’s not your pregnancy. Well, it’s your pregnancy, but not your baby. Yeah, there’s other aspects. I, like for example, if your marriage is falling apart or your kids are having issues at school, or I don’t know, or you’re just having a crap time at your own work, I think it should be okay that you say, nah, don’t want to talk about it.

23:37
Yes, that’s some good advice. You’re sharing a lot, but it doesn’t have to be everything. I don’t think so. I think as a surrogate, you’re sharing enough of yourself. Yes. Yep. That’s some good advice. And for both sides of the team too, it’s finding that line between not hiding anything. You don’t have to give the full details. No, no, absolutely. And like you say, absolutely same with IPs. They don’t have to tell us the ins and outs of their daily eating routine. It’s fine. Both sides should share the main things,

24:07
that are going to progress your team and progress your connection and friendship. Because that’s what everyone aims to do. That’s what I aim to do was to have a team that I would say to people, yeah, I carried for friends of mine rather than saying, oh yeah, I was a surrogate. Because to me, when you say, yeah, I was a surrogate twice, for example, it’s very business-like and to me, it doesn’t have that human connection necessarily.

24:37
feel like if you say, yeah, I carry for my friends, you know, and you look at photos and you feel that you can go, oh, there’s my friends and they have baby, you know, they have a baby. I feel like your team has reached that next level. And as a surrogate, we have, all of us have seen different teams get to that level and you know, and we.

24:56
I know that when you and I started, you know, everyone used to bang on about this gold standard and in this you would hear of, oh, I’m in, I’m in a surrogacy high after giving birth and you know, and I know for me, I was chasing that mythical creature that I don’t think, if I’m honest, I don’t, I think the minority get that mystical creature and they feel that and it’s actually the majority of journeys that don’t feel that. Agreed. Not necessarily feel like never regret.

25:26
regret anything. I’m so grateful that both sets of IPs entrusted me to carry their baby to help expand their family, finish their family, you know, help nurture, you know, the biggest gift of life. I’m so grateful for that and I never would regret that and I don’t take that for granted, absolutely not. And I don’t take for granted how fortunate I am that I was able to offer that. Yeah, that’s just fascinating. It’s such a surrogate, like IPs listening be like, what the surrogate’s grateful, we’re the ones that are grateful.

25:56
Yeah, it’s good that you can find that level of peace.

25:59
I’ve still got quite a few questions to ask you, but we don’t need to be sorry. This is wonderful. You need to find me up. I just go on. This is great. Let’s keep going. We’ll finish off the photos of this journey, but I’d like to, yeah, I’ve got plenty to ask you. So then, oh God, I think I’m such a model. I’m so ridiculous. No, but it’s, I, I did, um, I did nude pregnancy photos of my sorry, but because I’m like, this is probably my last one. So these are full of myself. It’s a joke. No, I did the exact same pose. It’s beautiful. Cause it’s your body and the pregnant bodies are beautiful.

26:29
I’ve got this feeling you told me these were done in the hospital on the day of birth. Is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Yep. So this one was the, sorry, that one was the first one like in labor. I just got, we all just did our rat tests. They were just about to hook me up and I was like, oh, quick, get my gear off, take a photo. I actually posted this one on my Facebook page almost straight after birth. Obviously no like baby announcement because again, that’s not my place to do that. I

26:55
did that down the track once IPs had done that, because it’s their news to share, not mine, but I live in a small town and people love to gossip. And also now that I’m single.

27:06
God knows what the wheel of gossip would say. So I thought better nip that in the bud. Hence I did a post down the track. But this one, I did a post and it was essentially thanking the old girl for holding up over seven pregnancies, nurturing seven lives and just everything that she had given. And I had worked very hard for that gut seven times around. Yep. Yeah. Well, yeah. Our bodies are amazing things. Seven babies you’ve carried in birth. And then you had a surrogate friend

27:36
with you on the day there as your support person, that’s right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Very near and dear and God love her. Again, I guess this is a comparison from first to second. You know, first time around, naturally, I had my ex-husband given all marriages, but, you know, we were together for a very long time. So during labor of all of our keeper children, he was amazing. He was, you know, he was the best person I could have had there in that moment with me, because he knew me. He just, you know, he knew when I needed a drink.

28:06
He knew he knew when I needed to squeeze his hand nearly break his fingers in pain and you know all those things that in those moments when emotions are running very high you

28:15
don’t either have the vocabulary nor the energy nor the patience to verbalize. So I remember soon after that nudie rudie photo that you just showed, I was getting strapped in whatever and I had a bit of a sook. My dear friend, yeah, she just hugged me and she said, it’s okay, it’s okay, it’s okay. And I was upset. One, I wasn’t, I certainly wasn’t mourning my ex-husband, God, no.

28:44
birth a child by myself. Yeah. To not have that person, you know, that you’d had, I’d had five, six times, sorry, including um, first surrobub. I’d had six times around. Yes. And I didn’t know if I could do that by myself. But you weren’t alone. No, no. Hence, hence the photo on the right. It shows obviously I am my friend, me, and it shows one of.

29:06
the beautiful midwives that we had, we probably over the time, cause this is going to sound horrendous cause I even think so, but you know, seventh baby and labor went for about 22 hours. And you know, but you know how they love to put on the discharge paper. Oh, it only lasted for, you know, two and a half because that’s the active bit. And you think, Oh, I did all the leg work before that. Anyway, so yeah, we probably had about five midwives across the whole time.

29:34
So beautiful. And I think the photo on the right, similar to the photos before that you showed of my whole family and my second journey’s family, it shows that surrogacy takes a village. I think the photo on the right to me represents, you know, girl power, you know, empowering women coming together all for the same purpose, you know, just.

29:55
essentially holding the space for one another. Definitely. Yep. Definitely some beautiful photos. And I’m glad you had somebody to take the photos. I’m so grateful. So that was one of my non-negotiables, which was perfect that the IPs agreed. One of my non-negotiables was to have a birth photographer because you always miss those moments. So in my first journey, I told my ex-husband, you be the paparazzi, you be the photographer and capture those moments for the IPs. You know, like, don’t worry about me. I’ll be fine. Don’t hold my hands. I’m right. I know what I’m doing.

30:25
captured some photos, like the first photo he captured for the first journey is of them, both, um, I am an IF with baby as soon as she came out, you know, and that’s a photo they wouldn’t have had because we did back also back then, eight years ago, birth photographers weren’t really a thing to be fair. So you know, we didn’t have that. So this time around, I really wanted one, one for selfishly for myself, of course.

30:47
But also for the IPs to have those moments and to look back and it does bring back a lot of memories actually. And then this photo that you’re showing is me with a

30:57
obviously. He is a week old and this, I stayed one night in hospital, obviously saw him the day that he was born and then I saw him the next day that I was leaving hospital. He also left the same day as me so we both only had one night in hospital. Fortunately we only needed that and then this was the first time we met so he’s a week old in this photo. Was that planned to have that time apart or just worked out that way with surrogacy and things? No it certainly wasn’t planned so

31:27
I thought I’d learned from first to second was that counselling throughout the pregnancy would be a great idea because I didn’t do that the first time around. So first time around we did the compulsory counselling at the start and all that sort of thing. They give you all the horrible what ifs, like what if baby isn’t compatible with life? What if your life is at risk? What if, what if? I’ll circle back and touch on that slightly in a minute. Then we had counselling in the first journey. We had that at the start.

31:57
had counseling nine months after birth. Right. And that was it. Yes. So nothing ongoing during pregnancy. No, no, because who needs that first time around is what we’re all thinking clearly. I learned from you all. So did you have some, what was it different second journey then, Bec? Thank God you did some research. So.

32:16
Definitely different. So second journey, we obviously again, did the mandatory stuff at the start. Then we had an agreement that we would do one per semester, semester, sorry, per trimester, with the option of having more if we needed, individual if we needed. From memory, we did group counseling, first trimester and third. I think we skipped second only because, and this sounds silly, but second kind of creeped up and all of a sudden was finished. Okay. You know, life happens and then you’re like,

32:46
trimester two already. Yeah. You know, anyway, so most of the pregnancy, I’m gonna say from trimester two all the way to post-birth, even after bubs, I had an individual counseling session, I think two days post-birth. I had fortnightly individual counseling. Good. From when to when? From basically second trimester, all the way to post for about, and post for about eight weeks. Good, good. I mean, I had it up to a year but I had post-adulterated depression. So,

33:16
Even having some regular ones post-birth, that’s really good. Glad to hear that happened. I loved it. I thought that it was just so valuable and it really helped me. And, you know, God love counselors. You go in and you think you’ve got your shit together and then you realize, no, I really don’t. So.

33:33
I always find you’ve got something to say. So, um, it was just really helpful. Again, I’m, you know, me, I know, but, um, for all the people out there that don’t necessarily know who I am, I’m not a person that ever feels sorry for myself. And I certainly don’t ever rely on people or I definitely try not to. A lot of stuff has happened, you know, personally with my health, which has affected me long-term and all that stuff. So I have grown to be quite independent and I’m not a person.

34:03
I would feel like I’m quite a strong person. So naturally there were moments throughout the journey that challenged me of course, but I never once was like, this is hard because I’m single or anything like that. It was definitely just, it’s hard because it’s hard or it’s hard because you’re trying to manage a pregnancy that has so many fingers in the pregnancy pie that doesn’t naturally happen. And you know, and again, being a surrogate, I would like to think one of the prerequisites

34:33
and you ooze empathy and

34:35
I would really like to think that I am like that, but sometimes you just don’t have the energy to be mindful of everyone’s emotions or you just say something and it comes out or it’s misinterpreted. And I think the unintentional misinterpret are the hardest because naturally they’re unintentional. So, you know, and especially as pregnancy goes on and you get into your thirties and you know, you’re really close and then, you know, especially if things happen that you’re not anticipating.

35:05
I was super duper duper duper duper set on going to at least 40 weeks. So with all of my keeper babies, none were born before 40 and four. Most of mine were born at 41 and something. So I was set on not going, not before 40.

35:22
I just had this thing and sorrow, but one was born at, I was induced at 38 and three, which was obviously my earliest and my body did not appreciate that. And I never didn’t have counseling to kind of, you know, talk that through after her birth. So just kind of like midwives second time around the old, because

35:46
we ended up engaging a private OB. So I had one of them second time around and from about 20 something to, and I ended up getting induced at 38 and three, what are the chances? So I had him for, you know, like that 18 weeks roughly. And originally my IPs said, you know, would you like to.

36:05
They did give me the option, would you like to engage one? And I thought I’ve never had one and it sounds real wank to me and a waste of money in fairness, even though they’re paying, I was still like, it’s such a waste of money. I don’t mind going public and seeing randos every time, but obviously in hindsight it was really lovely to have the same person, that continuity. You don’t have to relay your whole entire story every single time. You don’t have to have this awkward, yeah, so I’m the surrogate. I’m the weird one. I’m doing this weirdo thing. Let’s move on. You know, like he just knows every time he sees you.

36:35
So lovely, so lovely. So in hindsight, it was great. It was great to have him at the time I was skeptical. He was saying, oh, you’ve probably suffered a bit of trauma from the first birth only because it was earlier than what my body naturally goes. So therefore I was like, that’s okay. I’m not going to go before 40. My body clearly can go to 40, so I’m gonna go to 40. And this was a back and forth.

36:58
conversation for majority of that 18 weeks that we had the odd with myself and the IPs. They were apprehensive and nervous that they would miss the birth. We live just under about 40 minutes apart, but my fifth keeper baby, sixth pregnancy fifth keeper baby was 36 minutes. Right. So they were a bit nervous that they would miss it. And I kept saying, I can’t break my waters. Like that’s just not a talent of mine. I’ve never been able to do it,

37:28
It can’t be that hard, but I still can’t do it. I attempted to go again just to try not really. No kidding, you’re kidding. I was saying, you’re not going to miss it because I can’t shoot out the baby until my water’s broken and I can’t break them naturally. So you’re going to be fine. Anyway, hence had about getting an obstetrician came along because I wasn’t able to birth at my local hospital because they told me that I was too heavy and I had had too many children. So…

37:55
Yeah, it was a really lovely conversation. So then we were a bit up in arms about where we were going to go. Yeah. So we got the obstetrician kind of to have some, you know, certainty, all that stuff. And then the ongoing conversation between all four of us was that, did I have to go before 40 weeks, could I go to 40 weeks, blah, blah, blah. I compromised and happily, happily compromised, but I agreed to be induced on the dot of 40 weeks because happy to be induced so you won’t miss the labor. I’ve been in birth. Sorry.

38:25
juice before so I’m not like anti that some women are a bit about it but I’m not that’s okay

38:30
But I said, I have to get to 40 weeks. Also, for some reason in my mind, to me, if I personally don’t get to 40 weeks, I haven’t done pregnancy properly. I feel like I’ve cheated everybody. So, uh, it’s, it’s all about the number. So anyway, so this was a back and forth conversation, yada, yada, yada, yada. As pregnancy progressed, my hypertension increased and therefore I had to get induced before 40 weeks as to how, how much before that was also up for negotiations. So I said,

39:00
I at least get to 39 and a half, like just a couple of days early. I think that was a go for about a week until the next appointment. And then very quickly progressed to getting induced at 30, it turned out 38 and three, which was exactly the same as first time around. So then again, the safety of bubs is my priority. It’s higher than the priority I have on my own life. So I don’t know if that’s something we should advocate for my dear, because you know,

39:30
you know, new surrogates listening, but no, it’s okay to put your health first because there’s many children that rely on you. But I can understand.

39:39
that you’ve been charged with carrying this gift and you wanna do it as well as you can? Yeah, no, for sure. I’m not advocating that, no, I’m just saying this is the way that I go, so that was okay. And then, yeah, so it turned out 38 and three, we walked in and we did that nudie rudie photo and we started the process. Unfortunately, he decided to stick his chin out and not press down, so therefore, labor went forever and a day. I swear my obstetrician was asleep at one point in the corner.

40:09
on him and I was sucking on gas like no man’s business because normally that’s all I need if anything sometimes I’ve I’ve gone with nothing because I think I’m such a hero so yeah he wasn’t progressing yada yada so and naturally I’m getting knackered so they talked not talked me into it they suggested I get an epidural because they said I may have needed a caesarean and I have never had one so I said nah nah you’re not gonna gut my locker fish no um the obstetrician obviously was like maybe and I was like maybe not

40:39
No, maybe no. So anyway, I said, I’ll have an epi and, and we’ll go, we’ll stick with that. Naturally the, for anyone like myself who hasn’t had an epi, who knew that it slowed down like the contractions. So I went from five centimeters to.

40:53
back to four centimeters dilated and then had to slowly progress up. Um, however, I was living my best life. I couldn’t feel a thing. I don’t know why I have never had one six times previous. Oh, it was the best. And, um, anyway, then we fast forward, yada yada. We all get a bit of a nap, which is great. And then we progress up. He comes and checks me in the morning of the next day. He gives me a deadline to be fully dilated or have a caesarian. Um,

41:20
which I agree upon, all the while knowing that I won’t need that second option, got to the deadline and he said, yeah, ready to go. About two hours before he said good to go, they started counting my active labor because they, again, I couldn’t feel anything, but on the paperwork that I was strapped to the monitors with, it was saying that, you know, contractions were increasing, all that stuff. So they said, right, active labor’s from now. He gave me the deadline, we got to the deadline and he said, good to go, half an hour later, baby out. Well done.

41:50
me and my dear friend, my parents came to visit and bought us KFC for dinner. Oh, happy days. Ah, who doesn’t love a bit of greasy chicken? So yeah, all went well.

42:00
Well done, well done. We’ll just finish off these photos. I think we’ve probably just got one more to go of your team. Is that just before you leave hospital? Yes, it is just before we leave hospital. It is, you know, the IPs holding Bubs with the big brother. He’s so proud as punch. And then the two midwives on the left are the ones that, you know, help deliver Bubs and, you know, cut the cord and check on him and check his throat because he was a bit congested and stuff. So they took him out to the

42:28
corridor straight after birth. Um, so they were the two, yeah, mostly with their hands, hands amongst it. They’re lovely. And they, you know, again, after, after birth and after we all cleaned up, whatever, you know, both of them are crying and giving us all cuddles and you know, we had lots of questions from all five of midwife teams throughout the labor and even the best photographer actually, cause she’s considering being a surrogate. So, you know, lots of conversations arise from all these sorts of things. You know, how, how do you do it? Is it difficult? Where do you go?

42:58
you know, all that education stuff. So, Look at you continuing to educate people like even Ah, you’re welcome.

43:06
So did your kids then meet Sarubab sometime soon after he was born? So soon, yeah. Depends what you say is soon. I think my kids met him maybe he was, I think about three weeks old and then him idolizing surrogacy, you know, the promise or the, you know, the vision that people have is that you’re going to, both families are almost going to, you know, blend into one and, and we’re going to see each other frequently and local journeys are going to

43:35
you’re physically going to see each other more than interstate journeys.

43:40
And, you know, the kids are almost going to grow up, not, not as siblings, but, you know, they’re kind of going to grow up together or the surrogate children are going to ask about sorrow bub. I was prepared for that. I was like, yeah, I’m, I’m here for that. And my kids don’t and it’s, you know, and it’s nothing negative. They just kind of, I mean, the kids, so that it’s kind of out of sight, out of mind, you know, for them, and I think that’s okay. I think that it’s okay that they don’t.

44:10
spin on us.

44:12
You know, cause it’s not, it’s nothing like that every now and then, especially my seven year old and you know, my five year old girl, you know, she’ll jiggle my guts and she’ll say, you’ve still got a baby in there and I’ll say, no, so polite, especially when she does it in public and sometimes Hendrix who seven will ask about, you know, the older brother cause they’re similar ages. Um, you know, and, and that’s lovely. And we’re actually in the process at the second of trying to organise a catch up when the stars align in crazy season, because our parentage order was just approved. Uh,

44:42
couple of weeks ago. Congratulations. Thank you. I’m off the hook.

44:45
Again, that’s just something that I like to me, it promised that it was going to be this and this. And it doesn’t turn out that way. You know, we’re local and my first ones were interstate. And yes, the local ones, you know, had groceries delivered for me and, you know, they cooked me some meals and we did catch up. You know, they came to a lot more appointments than my first journey with the interstate IPs, naturally, because, you know, distance allows. As in contact afterwards or the vision that we all had.

45:15
you know, it’s actually quite similar, the journeys, I think. You know, like my kids don’t, certainly don’t ask about…

45:21
sorry, but one who’s eight, you know, and, or anything like that. And again, it’s not a negative thing. I think, you know, just out of sight, out of mind. I’m sorry if I wasn’t in the line of vision, they probably wouldn’t even ask about me. So, yeah, that’s what you mean. Yeah. That busy lives. Yep. You mentioned during journey one and think about journey two about some non-negotiables I think I’ve got from you there, birth photographer was one having some ongoing counseling. Were there any other non-negotiables that were part of journey two? And did they happen? I don’t have many.

45:51
One of my non-negotiables which carried through from one to two was…

45:56
no termination. So I wouldn’t do that. Journey one, we both agreed upon that. Journey two, they would terminate, but they had a very extreme line, for lack of a better word, that they would draw. And I obviously agreed that that was okay. For me personally, there is zero line. So like never, ever, ever, ever would I. For me, because theirs was so extreme and you know, the chances of that occurring is like so, so minute. I was okay with that.

46:26
that you wanted to happen in Journey 2 that you tried to happen and didn’t happen? I really think one of the importance is, again, surrogacy takes a village. It takes lots of people and surrogates aren’t, you know, we’re not just these people at home. Like I’m not just this mum sitting on this couch or this lady, I should say, sitting on this couch. You know, I have kids and I work full time and try and run a somewhat organized household and, you know, we have like seven

46:55
basketball trainings a week and we have like five basketball games a week and I don’t drive for medical reasons. So we do a lot of this either with carpooling or on public transport. And plus we have obviously friends and you know, kids have friends and also they have a parent that lives at a separate house or they share their time and you know, all this stuff. And I think it’s important that all of this is taken into account. So I think it’s important that the families of surrogates and the families

47:25
get to know each other. It’s not just me giving my time for nine months, and it’s not just me potentially being.

47:33
bedridden during that nine months. Or it’s not just me having X amount of time off work after a baby. I had one week for journey one off work and I had three weeks for journey two. By choice, I felt guilty to have any more because any more time off work. One, I was fortunate I didn’t health wise, I didn’t need to, but I felt guilty because I didn’t actually have a baby that I was looking after. To meet the IP’s parents who were becoming grandparents, maybe for the first time, maybe for the 10th time would be lovely.

48:03
to put a name to a face and also be a part of the pregnancy and you know all that sort of thing. I know for my first journey the one set of

48:13
grandparents were first timers. So that was super lovely. And you know, the very unexpectedly, but extremely cherished for the first Mother’s Day that came soon after, because she was March and obviously Mother’s Day is May, I got a Pandora charm from the new Nana, which has like pictures of people holding hands on it. And so it’s the charm actually itself is called family bond or something like that. And she gave me a handwritten letter, which

48:43
rather than just two from her. Anyway, it was like this novel thing inside and essentially thanking me for giving her a grandmother day. Absolutely, yes. And I just think, oh, that’s…

48:52
It is. Those things for surrogates, which mean a lot, those handwritten notes where people go to a bit of time and effort. So yes, I think you’re right. Integrating the families and getting to know each other and spending time there to see that you’re not just making parents, you’re making grandparents and aunts and uncles. So sometimes it is nice to meet them and preferably see them again after too. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. You know, when you just think that’s what I do it for. Yes. That they’re the moments that you go, yeah, this is why I do it. This is why I could go again. Yep.

49:22
Again, it’s eight years on. So they don’t naturally say every time we chat in our messenger group, they don’t every time say, oh, we’re so grateful, but I know that they’re grateful and that’s okay, you know, like, I don’t need to hear that all the time. Soon after birth, you know, again, hormones for us are running high and, you know, and we do like hearing that.

49:40
But again, where I am, I know you are, we all are, we’re the people in the background for a reason. Cause we don’t like being the center of attention. We don’t want to be put on a pedestal. We’re just like the little Chinaman in the background getting stuff done, but it is nice to hear that acknowledgement. And as time goes on, you just, you, instead of hearing it, you more feel that it’s there. Like with my first ones, I can feel that it’s there. Even my most recent journey, I can feel with them that it’s there. They send photos and I mean, they do say often how grateful they are, but,

50:10
sending certain photos or little videos or something I can tell depending what it is I can tell yeah I just know that they’re grateful they don’t have to say it. Well that leads me on to let’s do second to last question here what was something that either you can think of of each set of IPs or just generally something they did that made you feel safe and something that made you feel appreciated? Oh that’s a toughie.

50:31
I guess the appreciated is what you’re saying. It’s then keeping you in contact with the odd photo and update to keep you in their lives. It’s those ongoing things. Was there anything during pregnancy that helped you feel safe or appreciated? There’s never just one thing I don’t think. I think that’s why I’m struggling. I don’t want it to seem like there’s nothing. My most recent journey, for example, baby turned six months and in the mail I got a handwritten letter from,

51:01
how grateful they are as a family of four. To be a family of four, to be watching baby grow up, you know, without me, that wouldn’t be a family of four. And it had a little passport photo because I’ve been overseas. So it had a photo with it. And that was so unexpected and just so beautiful because I appreciate those as we all do. I appreciate those things much more. Those, you know, it’s almost off the cuffs, although I’m sure she was thinking about it for ages.

51:30
You know, but it’s, it’s the thing that obviously she sat down, she’s written a whole few pages. So, you know, she’s taken some time out of her day or, you know, while he’s napping or whatever that might be. And then she’s gone to the effort of actually going to the post office and posting it. And, you know, it’s not just, it’s more than just a text message that says edit at the top, you know, because I had a typo. That’s perfect. It’s those things. They’re the things. And it’s that they paused in their busy lives to do something. And because we took, you know, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for nine months to do

52:00
them and the years leading up to it. So yes, it is those things that didn’t cost money. They cost some time. Yep. That means something to us. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I just, me personally, and whether it’s surrogacy or not, you know, I could care less about money. So I don’t care if you send me flowers. I don’t care if you get me groceries delivered, you know, yes, it’s lovely. Yes, it’s appreciated. You know, you make me some spag bol and the next time you see me, you slip it in my freezer without me even knowing, or you post me a letter on a milestone.

52:29
or you send me a voice clip message just to say, hey, it’s a Thursday, hope you’re having a good day. Yeah, that’s what I want. Showing that they’re still your friend too, yes. That’s right, they do, they follow up all the time. I am all the time will be like, oh, how’s so-and-so going at school? Last time we spoke, they were having a bit of a rough trot, what’s happening now or where are they on the basketball ladder? Things like that. And again, that matters to me because you think, oh, you’ve actually taken notice of what

52:59
I do in my life or what my children do in their lives. And it’s not all about surrogacy. I think that’s what makes the difference. That’s probably what I was struggling to say earlier and articulate terribly is, you know, to say, yeah, I was a surrogate twice is that you never progress. You never took neither like neither party because no one’s at fault. Both parties together never took the time to progress and take notice and step outside surrogacy. Yes. You don’t have to talk about it all the time. Yes, you have to talk about it a lot.

53:29
especially when you’re like going through pregnancy because you have to update people and you know you have to have blood tests all the blood time and all this stuff there’s more to life than just having your baby when they care about the things that we care about yeah like kids that you know that’s the world yeah and that makes a friendship and then that becomes yeah i carried my friend’s baby like even you know the whole conversation changes because you don’t even actually use the word surrogacy or surrogate in it you know you’ve carried you know a baby for

53:59
for example, and it’s interesting for me, given that my journeys were so far apart, so again, eight years from birth to birth, the first time around that I would say, oh yeah, I was a surrogate, people are like, oh my God, how amazing or, you know, like, just all these questions would flow because it was obviously back then quite taboo still. And then it’s just interesting, this goes to, you know, your education and the just kind of more education that’s, you know, available out there so freely is this time around, like,

54:29
job in term three. So in July I started this new job. I’ve obviously already given birth. And I’ve mentioned not heaps of times, but like a handful of times in random conversations. I’ve just said, Oh yeah, yeah, I, you know, I did surrogacy twice or somehow.

54:43
it’s come up about like essentially giving birth or whatever. And, um, I don’t just randomly say that just FYI, it’s nothing to my workmates. And it’s not, it’s not because they’re all surrogates. It’s just obviously because surrogacy in general in Australia is more openly spoken about. It’s not as taboo if you are a surrogate or if you need a surrogate, you know, it’s just more like, Oh yeah, totally. Cause that’s like, that’s what my neighbor did or, you know, yeah, my cousin has to, um, look for one or, you know, whatever it might be.

55:13
IVF is now another normal way to have a family. That’s our vision, isn’t it? Yeah. Surrogacy is just another normal thing to do. Yeah, that’s right. And I remember with the most recent journey, I had a failed transfer. So my first one was failed. And I took that as most of us surrogates do. And I had heard of, you know, women before me, you know, take it really hard that, you know, they had a failed transfer and maybe needed a couple of months off, you know, kind of, you know, the matching dating surrogacy

55:43
Because again, with all of my keeper babies, I’ve had them, you know, conceived naturally. And so to my knowledge, I’ve never miscarried with, sorry, Bub one, you know, she she stuck first time. So then come this time, you know, and eight years on, you know.

55:57
just under eight years on and yes, I’m older, you know, whatever. But still I was like, how hard could this be? It, you know, you know what I mean? Like you do, you do have that naivety that like worked the first time last time. Why wouldn’t it this time? You know, and you’ve had all these lining scans and you’ve had the doctor, you know, check the lining and go, your uterus can do some more work. And you think, settle down with that language.

56:19
But, you know, don’t be saying that when the IPs are in the room, God, the ideas they’re going to get. But, you know, and then you have to transfer and then it doesn’t work. And you really do feel like, which is again, what I had heard, but not understood.

56:34
is really like, what is wrong with me? What am I doing that didn’t make it work? Because it worked the first time. And especially because I’ve had keeper babies, like everything has always been fine. And I know that IVF is just one of those things that it can work or it might not. And I know that, but in the moment, you really feel like, what have I done that I should have been more careful about? And we all know it’s nothing, but like when you’re still learning, even eight years later, there’s still things to- Oh, for sure, yeah. I’m no expert.

57:04
Even after this time, there’s things that I go, oh, I would have done that differently either myself or I would have expected differently of them or maybe I would have compromised on this or I would have pushed for this or I wish they had have asked me about this or whatever it might be. I’m always learning, we always, all of us are. I’m sure even you in your thousand webinars that you’ve done, each co-host probably gives you some kind of takeaway. Yes, well, this for you tonight. Identity calendar or. Absolutely.

57:34
way of looking at it. And I remember years ago at conferences, some, you know, one of the wise people again before us always said, there should always be one takeaway, you should always have at least one takeaway from something. And again, like you, I’ve done a few seminars, like Melbourne based seminars, and like now doing this with you. And I’ve done another podcast for another surrogate slash lawyer. And I always think there has to be.

57:59
has to be a takeaway. You know, normally my takeaway, but you touched on it before, so I’m trying not to double up on info. But you know, my takeaway is trust, that this is all just built on trust, you know, that we’re not just building trust.

58:10
They trust us to hand over baby and please someone, whoever is listening to this webinar, please come up with a better term and I will jump on board and I will cheer lead your new term. I hate that term, hate, hate, hate that term because it’s not handing over because we’re just giving the baby back to where they belong. Yeah. And you know, cause it’s not ours to give. So it’s not ours to hand over, hate that anyway. That’s just a bed bug of mine. But you know, it is all based on trust. It’s, you know, they obviously, like you said, they trust that we are going to bake their baby.

58:40
properly and it’s going to come out beautiful and slimy and all that goodness that babies are. And we trust that they’re going to take the baby no matter what and love that baby no matter what. And then second layer on that because it, you know, surrogacy is like onions, there’s always layers. Second layer on that is that we trust that they’re going to keep us in their lives. Again, mine for example, and again, I’ve, you know, we’ve been around so we’ve heard many

59:10
But you know, mine, for example, my first journey, it’s probably classed as minimal contact, you know, we sporadically chat on our group message, you know, and that’s what it is. That’s the extent of it. This journey, like this is quite fresh, this one, so I’m not sure how all this is going to pan out at the second. However, I definitely know because we spoke about it a lot in counseling during pregnancy is and also privately, the amount of contact we would have.

59:40
her IPs back in, you know, whatever year it was that she was pregnant, that they would set dates to catch up on. And then if it got close to that date and she, as the surrogate post-birth, didn’t feel like she needed that catch up, she could cancel. Because for a surrogate, we don’t ask anything ever, ever. We will just struggle forever. And we just expect everyone to read between lines. And that’s just unfortunately the way that it is.

01:00:10
for a catch up. At least if you have it set and you’re like, oh, actually today doesn’t suit me, you could cancel rather than I desperately need one yesterday. You know, so this was one of the things. So we obviously had spoken about post birth, we would catch up like multiple times, I think we said like two or three times in the first couple of weeks for like say the first month. And then it would slowly go to once a week for maybe a month or two. And then it would go to fortnightly and then just naturally progress to a normal friendship,

01:00:40
once a month or it might be once every two months, you know, however the natural cycle falls. And obviously that all sounds great in theory. And again, it’s no one’s fault. It just life happens and we haven’t stuck to that. And that’s just, you know, what it is, but you know, we’re still in very regular contact. We probably text or send messages of voices or photos, whatever, at least once a week, if not more, you know, so it’s just, it is what it is. It is what it is. And I think that I think it’s all well and good to have non-negotiables. And I absolutely want.

01:01:09
thousand percent surrogates out there, you need non-negotiables and you need not to compromise all the time. Compromising, I think should come from both sides evenly. However, I feel like with your non-negotiables, there also has to be a touch of flexibility. You know, some things that, for example, I spoke about not breastfeeding. That was my choice. I did not want to direct feed. I didn’t do it for first bub and I didn’t want to do it for this bub. That was purely based because breastfeeding doesn’t come naturally.

01:01:39
to me and I struggled with all five of my children, like, you know, all the extra pumping and the cookies and the this and the that and the vitamins or whatever, like none of that worked for me. I ended up using donor milk from my best friend to feed my kids, my own children. So, so selfishly and also second time around.

01:01:56
as in birthing earlier this year, I now have five kids. So I don’t really even have the time, which sounds so selfish and I hate that cliche, but I don’t really even have the time to be sitting on the couch pumping when I’ve got five. So I didn’t want to, and that was okay, but then a conversation down the track with midwives came up that what about, and it was obviously a what if, the placenta wasn’t coming, and again, stories that both myself and I am had read about, researched, heard directly, whatever,

01:02:26
had the first skin to skin, which helped the placenta birth, you know, just because the hormones are running and you know, all that yummy stuff, whatever the goodness of skin. When that came up, it was a bit like, oh, okay, so now we will talk about this and hopefully there’ll be a point of flexibility because up until that point, I am really wanted first skin to skin and I said, totally fine. I don’t want skin to skin. Again, I didn’t do this with first bub and it’s, you know, it was the same with breastfeeding too. I didn’t

01:02:56
breastfeeding with her and I’m not gonna do it with this bub. I know my undoing and if I have skin to skin, I’m going to, obviously I’m still going to hand over baby, but it’s gonna be tougher for me. And I just know that that’s one of my limitations because I’m going to feel baby warm and gooey and the way that babies are when they’re born. And I just knew that that wasn’t right for me to do that. But then when the conversation came up with the midwife, and again, this has gone from a non-negotiable

01:03:26
So at the very start at the dinners, we’re talking, I am and I talking about this and I’m saying, yep, yep, one of my things, no way am I having first skin to skin. And she’s saying, oh, cool.

01:03:36
because I want first skin to skin. So in her mind, she’s going tick. That’s, you know, one of the things that we match on. Then down the track, when it’s brought up to us by medical staff, you know, then obviously we had a conversation about, but what if, and this is all I’m trying to say to whoever’s listening is, you know, it’s fine to have you non-negotiables, but there has to be a middle ground where everyone is okay to have flexibility if you need to. And did you both come into agreement on that? If the- Yeah, we did.

01:04:06
It was definitely a back and forth long conversation, even like still in labor conversation. We found middle ground that yes, it would be okay if needed, but only absolutely if it was needed. All in all, you’re probably talking about a max of five minutes. It’s not like you’re talking about for the rest of their lives. For me to have had that into skin first off would have been okay, would have probably been uncomfortable for her. And I can appreciate that. If it was necessary, it would have happened.

01:04:36
So then I get to bask in her having it. Sure, and watch that. Yeah, of course. And again, it’s captured on film, you know, so lucky for me, I get to look back. That’s true. So many wonderful insights, Bec, thank you. Oh, you’re welcome. Have you got any last bits of parting advice that you would either give Bec at the beginning or things that you’re like, oh, I wanted to make sure I said something. Is there anything extra you’d like to add? You know, I just want to say to everybody, I wish you all the very best and I am.

01:05:03
fearing for absolutely everyone. And surrogacy is great that, you know, that people are willing to help others. That’s what I love about it the most. And that’s why I’m still hanging around. And I go to the dinners and I love the conferences because as much as anything, I’ve made friends amongst surrogates and I’ve made friends amongst other IPs who I’ve now been able to watch become parents or fall and I’ve tried to help catch, you know, amongst other people.

01:05:33
that go outside this bubble world. Most times, I don’t even talk about surrogacy with those people. You know, we’re talking about day-to-day stuff. We’re talking about going to concerts or musicals or, you know, traveling overseas or, you know, whatever it is, getting boob jobs because after seven babies, you know, like gravity takes over, whatever. It’s so lovely what it can bring for everybody. And I genuinely, gosh.

01:05:57
I’m not trying to scare anyone off and please don’t jump into it like I did. That probably is one of my hot tips. It worked for me. It suited the way that I run my life. You’re much more of a researcher than I, so that obviously suited your life. And that’s, but like you say, unfortunately, it doesn’t matter.

01:06:13
how quickly you jump into that pool, it doesn’t matter how much research you do before dipping your toes in. That’s not a guarantee. I genuinely wish everyone the most love and the biggest baby cuddles and poo explosions when you get there. And I can’t wait to hopefully still be around and see you all get there. I don’t know how long I’ll be around. It just depends how my life goes. Would I do it again? Probably not. Not that anyone’s asking me, but probably not. Two times

01:06:43
was challenging, challenging, you know, because they’re strangers, I guess. And you go from not talking to talking every day and you’re…

01:06:51
having to share every inch of your life and then you’re joined forever, especially if you have those downfalls during pregnancy or after pregnancy. If it doesn’t go ideal, if it doesn’t get that mystical high of a creature that we hear about, that’s kind of the thing you’ve got to think of. Cause then you’re joined forever. However, nothing will prepare you for that at the start. There’s no guarantee. You know,

01:07:16
Safe proof, I can’t think of that word, so that’s not the right word, but there’s no guarantee that you will get on that high at the end. There’s no guarantee you’ll reach that gold standard. There’s no guarantee it’ll fall to shit and you’ll become a strange. Like there’s just no guarantee, that’s the way life is. It’s all based on trust and we need to just pay it forward. Try and put yourself in people’s shoes.

01:07:39
hats off to all the IPs that outsource their pregnancy because I couldn’t do it. Yeah, the hard gig being IPs. Oh, for sure, for sure. There’s challenges on both ends, absolutely. And I think even in outside of surrogacy per se, but the world we live in, we all just need to rally and lift each other up and support each other, I think, whether it’s surrogacy, whether it’s other stuff, you know, work, school.

01:08:02
you know, whatever it is. That’s beautiful. Just put them together. But anyway, sorry for my ramble, whoever’s still listening. Sorry, Anna, you have so much editing now. But thank you so much for having me on. I really do appreciate the opportunity. Love a chat, naturally. And so thank you. Thank you for joining me. If you’d like to see the photos shared in this webinar presentation, head over to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy.

01:08:29
Also check out our Zoom monthly catch-up sessions, which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child, and in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child. So welcome to the village.