Episode 77 – Samm – surrogate

00:00
Thanks for watching!

00:14
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one-hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents, there are opportunities to ask questions, and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

00:41
This episode recorded in November 2024 features Sam. Sam birthed as a surrogate in Port Hedland, WA in May 2022 for a couple who were initially strangers and are now lifelong friends. She had a little boy Joshua for his parents Lisa and Jared in Adelaide, South Australia. Sam and her family are now in Perth. However, it was a long journey with COVID restrictions limiting in-person catch-ups during the pregnancy. In this episode, we discuss Hyperemesis Gravidarum.

01:10
HG, which is extreme morning sickness, and how Sam was hospitalized on multiple occasions. COVID and border restrictions meant Sam saw her I.P.s at embryo transfer and then not again until she was 33 weeks pregnant. Birth complications? Sam was induced, her labor progressed quickly, not allowing time for an epidural. And issues with Josh’s position meant complications during pushing, resulting in Sam losing consciousness on multiple occasions.

01:39
Here Sam discusses the importance of a birth plan and having directions for staff about removing the IPs during emergencies like hers. And the big lesson from Sam, as the title of this episode suggests, is you need to make sure you’ve finished your family. Due to ongoing issues from her last two births, Sam had to have a hysterectomy in her late twenties, an important reminder for both surrogates and IPs that this could happen and needs to be discussed thoughtfully. I hope you enjoy this episode.

02:08
Sam, thank you for joining us. Take us back to the beginning. Why did you want to be a surrogate in the first place and how did you find your IPs? So I was actually really young when I wanted to do it. I was about 23 and I joined a couple.

02:19
pages on Facebook and sort of like lurked around for a while and figured out that obviously there’s an age you have to be. So I thought I’ll just chill. My husband and I were young parents. So had you had your children before 23? I had both kids before I was 21 and had two kids. Great. Yep. And married and we were done. We were finished and I was on the marina and I fell pregnant again.

02:43
And for me, it was a bit of a burden, but then I felt bad because for other people, they’re trying so hard. And for me, I was doing everything to prevent it and it still wasn’t working. I did miscarry that bug, but for me, that was like a big turning point for me. My husband’s like a burden for us, but maybe we could help somebody else. So that was why I joined the Pages and then I just hung around for a while and it did take, I think I was about 25 when I found Lisa and Jared. Right. Yeah.

03:13
that’s only grown in recent years. It would have been very quiet I imagine. So you joined the national group and… So I wasn’t even part of the WA group. I was only part of the egg donation page that they… I don’t know if you know about IVF and egg donation and then went over to ASC. Yes. So were you specifically looking for IPs who lived in your state? Mind you, you weren’t even in the capital city of Perth at the time. So were you very open to wherever? I think I was just more about the connection. It wasn’t about…

03:41
where they were, it was about who they were for me. Did you have any false starts? Have other IPs that you had been chatting to and just didn’t feel the click? No, no, yeah. So interesting, of course, due to your age you couldn’t start anyway. I mean, you could have been building some friendships, but so you were just watching and reading the introduction posts. So what was it about this couple in South Australia that sparked you?

04:02
Well, it’s kind of funny, but my IEPs, the father, his name is Jared, and my husband’s name is Jared, and they’re both spelt the same way. So that caught my eye. Something pretty trivial, maybe. And then I just found they’d shared photos of their dogs and I’m a dog person. So that won me over. And then I read the story and I just felt a connection to these people, especially because they love dogs. So I guess I’ve got two Great Danes and a Staffy. So yeah.

04:32
particularly for the IPs going, oh what do we have to do so a surrogate finds us. Literally, just for you, he had to have his name, Jared, that just and they shared photos of their dogs. For some people it could be 80s pop music or particular jokes or it’s often animals or a particular interest. It’s those connections, like it’s a connection thing because the whole process is connection.

04:55
that’s really important. So then how did that journey go? So you started messaging and chatting and you sort of then say, we’re dating and then is that how it worked? Yeah, so I saw Lisa post her story and then sort of commented on it, probably a bit naively and just said, oh, I’ll be in oven. I’m open to being in oven.

05:13
I said, which, you know, a lot of surrogates don’t like to use that term, but I’m pretty open. I’ll say it how it is. I said, I’ll be open to being in an oven. Sling me a message is what I said. And then Lisa messaged me and then from there we would just, we just started talking and it was every single day and we still quite often talk every day. So yeah. And by talk, do you mean text or messenger? Messenger. Yeah. And you birthed in May, 2022. Do you remember when you started chatting to them? It was 2020. COVID had just hit. That really held us up a lot.

05:43
I was 25 still anyway. So when did you first meet in person? So we first met in person, it was…

05:50
to January, I’m pretty sure. Maybe January 2020. Oh, okay. So you were chatting in 2019? Yes, we were chatting in 2019. There you go. Chatting in 2019, COVID happened and they came and visited Hedland in 2020. They were just able to get through. It was just when those borders kept closing. And that’s just our whole journey was that. Borders closed and opened at the right time. So yeah. Right. So you met them in person and then, you know, confirmed that you get on normally in person and feel that click as friends. And so then I suppose the journey can

06:20
and you did the counselling and the legals and the IVF clinic. All during COVID and from long distance, yeah? Yes, yeah, yeah.

06:27
Wow, were you able to use video conferencing a lot then? Yeah, we did that a lot. We did all of our counseling through video. I guess during COVID that was the common practice in the end, so it kind of worked in our favor. We got to do all of our counseling via video and our lawyers as well. So I’m in Adelaide, so I sometimes ask specific Adelaide questions, you probably went through their IVF clinic reprimand. Yes, correct. And so their counseling, well no, it’s an independent counselor, is that right? I think so, yeah, yeah. Lisa would know more about that, I just followed.

06:57
Just these dates work for me for an appointment. I’ll be there. So then do you remember how long this part of the process took? How many months? Was it most of 2020 then to get through it all? We started in late 2020 and it just had finished maybe mid 2021 because I was pregnant in September. And do you remember how many times you had met in person then during those years? Only that first meeting and then I went over to get pregnant. Yeah. Right. Let me just absorb that.

07:26
I know of one surrogate and I’ve had her and ten of parents on well that now parents they met on embryo transfer day. That’s full on. That’s full on. She’s Adelaide there Melbourne and COVID so but you’re not much different you’ve met twice. Yes I think we spent like a week when they were up in Headland that first time yeah and from then it was just let’s do it.

07:47
Yes. So sometimes for some surrogacy teams we say they have date nights where if you live locally you might the surrogate puts their kids to bed and the IPs come over and with the partner and they sit down they have takeaway together and then they talk about all of the big questions. Were you able to do something similar with your husband Jared and involving him to have these sorts of discussions or was it mainly you and Lisa were the drivers of this project? I think it was mainly Lisa and I but but Lisa and I just would talk about whatever came to mind. It was really natural flowing. We didn’t set up dates it just came naturally. We had the

08:17
to talk to each other. I think you know it was just always and I did have a me and Jared, the other Jared, we have a really good relationship too so I knew that I could talk to him. I think it was just honestly a genuine connection so yeah and I didn’t feel like I couldn’t not say anything or ask anything and Lisa I’m sure felt the same way. Did you have a group chat either as a three or a four at all? We do now and we still have the group but

08:41
I don’t think we did back then. I think it was after Joshua was born. I can’t quite remember. Yeah. So you had to come to Adelaide for the embryo transfer. Did it work first go? Yeah. Yeah, we were so lucky. And the thing is too with COVID, the border had just opened up slightly and I just happened to be in the right time of my cycle. And I’m like, I’m gone, I’m going. So I flew straight over and it was a natural cycle. We did it. And then I had to get home quickly because the borders were about to shut again and they did.

09:10
Sorry. And so that was September, 2021 around that time. Yeah.

09:14
Yeah, 20th of September was transfer day and I was home on the 21st. Yes, wow. And so then, due to COVID and being in WA and all the border lockdowns, what was pregnancy like and did you see them at all? It was really difficult and no, I didn’t see them until I was about 32 weeks, I think, 33 weeks pregnant and that was really rough on me. And I actually haven’t shared that a lot, but it has, it was, it was horrible because it was something that I wanted to be able to share with them and then to enjoy the pregnancy and see my belly grow and stuff like that.

09:43
and they couldn’t. So that was something that I’d feel that I didn’t get to experience in surrogacy a lot which can’t be helped. It almost makes it feel like you’re an overseas surrogate and they’re just around the time of birth. Yeah I didn’t get that connection during the pregnancy which was really rough but I’m sure they felt the same way. Yeah it’s not quite what we sign up for as surrogates is it? We want to give them the gift of life and a child but we also want to give them the journey. Yes yeah. To feel the kicks and to be there to help in some way.

10:13
when they know this baby’s coming and it’s our sort of feeling.

10:16
So we didn’t get that and I was very sick too. So I was in and out of hospital during the first trimester with HG. So that was really rough. And my husband had to obviously pick up the slack at home and we had the two young kids and yeah, that was hard on the family. So how old were your kids at the time? Like four and six or something? Six and eight, I believe. Yeah. Now for those that don’t know HG, it’s hyperemesis gravadium. Correct, yes. And so that’s for those that don’t know,

10:46
morning sickness. Now it’s like a deep dark hole you can’t get out of. It’s not just I’ll eat some dry crackers and I’ll be okay. Yeah, no it’s you lose weight. I actually bled a little bit too while I was pregnant and they said that was because of how much I was heaving and I just I was so unwell and I had to take a lot of time off work in the first couple of weeks. I think it let off about maybe 18 weeks. I started to feel a little bit better.

11:11
But yeah, I just walked in the hospital, they knew who I was. Yeah, you’ve got your bed with your name on it here. Yep, drip ready. Now see, I know some surrogates, it can last the whole pregnancy. I’ve got friends who aren’t surrogates who it can last.

11:25
That would be a hard thing as a surrogate. Well, for me, I enjoyed being pregnant and giving birth. And I’m guessing your pregnancies are fairly easy. And that’s probably part of the reason why you did it again. And then you had a pregnancy that was unexpected. Well, no, I’m pretty crazy because no, I suffered with my own as well. Okay. Very badly. Yeah, so I’m just crazy. And I think it just came back to this. I could do it. I could fall pregnant and it was a burden for me, but it wasn’t for others. So it was 20 weeks of my life that yeah, it was hell, but Josh is living his best life. So. Yeah.

11:55
little person. Yeah. So then they did come over and then I think that’s a good opportunity to go back to the photos because you did a photo shoot of once they came over. So how long before birth did they come over for and how long did they stay for all up? All up it was three months.

12:11
So they were there, yeah, from 32 weeks, I think, up until birth, and then they left when Josh was about eight weeks old. That’s wonderful. That’s a fantastic amount of time, I would say. Yeah. Happy with that? I think that made up for all the times that we didn’t get together during the pregnancy. I mean, I would have loved to have seen them around the time where I was so sick, so I could use that to my advantage a bit more, but. I’d love to.

12:36
I got to see them at the end of it though. In terms of being unwell, obviously they couldn’t be there to physically support you or help with your kids. What things were they able to do? I guess it really comes down to money then and you feeling comfortable to use their card to pay for things or were they able to? Which I was terrible at. We organised a cleaner because I’m a clean freak. So I had a cleaner come in once a week who was a lovely Balinese lady and she was just so invested in the pregnancy too. She was actually a struggling eye being as well.

13:05
I got to share that with her and she was so, she just loved coming to clean for me. So that was one thing that I was able to do have, but I don’t think that I utilized, I should have probably utilized a little bit more help, but as a surrogate, sort of shut it down a bit. The lovely photos that we’ve got here and in, but this other photo is, was this your offer to them? No, this was my announcement that I was pregnant. So I had a very, one of my high school friends, she’s an artist, I had her create it because they’re in South Australia and they would have had to make the trek all the way up to

13:35
to collect their treasure which was due in June 2022 but he was a little bit early. So wow and so was this an announcement that they used among their friends and family or social media or something? No they didn’t use it on social media but I did have a contact with Lisa’s cousin and she printed it out and delivered it to them to to announce that I was that’s how they found out that it was positive. Oh wonderful lovely to get people involved like that. Yeah it was great. And so during the pregnancy you…

14:03
push on with things with your families. Some photos here of you being pregnant and going camping and taking their little Josh in your tummy. Yeah, so I’m not actually camping. My daughter rides, races motocross. So we’re out in the motocross track while she was riding, just cooking up a barbecue. And that’s actually Jared at his ute, IF Jared.

14:24
you cooking us sausages while we all just chill out. Yeah. Wonderful. When they were in town and able to help out. Yeah. This beautiful photo here of you and Lisa lying on the ground with a heart drawn around you.

14:34
some fantastic photographer that you had. Yeah we had Bobby Lockyer, she is a designer, she’s actually gone overseas and she’s doing really well for herself but she was, I could have asked for anyone better to forward photos I guess, they’re beautiful. And you did these maternity and newborn photos with her too, is that right? Yeah and we recreated this photo which was like my favourite instead of my belly obviously it was jockeying between us. So we’ve got that one coming in a minute. Yeah. When you look back at these photos, are there any thoughts or feelings that

15:04
mine? Just happiness I guess excitement and I did that and their parents though. Yeah. It also takes me back to Headland because that you know that’s the place that we did it and I’ve moved away from Headland since then so it’s just a lot of memories. Yeah they’re both things in your past now aren’t they? Yeah and that’s everybody’s hands on my tummy. Wow. My kids too. Yes so many people in hands bringing this little baby into this world. Yeah. And that brings us to the day of birth. Yes.

15:34
takes you back to that day. Yeah, it does. My poor husband. It was a pretty full on traumatic birth. Summarize that for us. What can you tell us about it? So they induced me. I was sort of there all night and then the day came and I said, I wanted an epidural because I just wanted it to be a little bit more zen for everybody. Like the perfect incoming of baby, but it wasn’t. I progressed really fast. And by the time I told them that I needed the epidural,

16:03
It was way too late. And then I had a lot of complications and the parents were escorted out during that time. So that was pretty rough. And that’s one thing I want to mention. Very important that you have something written down for the hospital that if something bad does happen, you know exactly what you need to do with the parents. They need to be escorted out if that’s what you want. Because my thing was, if anything happened, Jared, my Jared, my husband was making the decisions. And then the parents were removed. Yeah, that’s I think pretty normal and common that.

16:32
the support person, usually the partner, makes the decisions, you know, if it has to be an emergency caesarian or… but yes, you had something, yeah, extra unexpected there happen in your birth with… And I was prepared for it, which was great, but yes, I had unexpected… I didn’t get my epidural.

16:49
So I was a little bit upset with that, but that’s okay. He came really fast and he was fine. But as I was pushing, I had a lot of complications around where he was positioned in my pelvis and he did a little bit of damage on his way out. I was actually in and out of consciousness as well. So that would have been really confronting for my husband, which is another thing that’s really important that we look after our husbands and the partners. But then he was born and everything was magic. Love, love. I’ve made a mum and dad, yes. And that was Lisa in that photo of her and I hugging. That was her hugging me.

17:19
to the placenta after it, I had a little bit of a bleed. You know, they were trying to get Lisa over to Josh, her son, but she wouldn’t leave my side. She did not want to leave me. She’s like, I will go to Josh when Sam is okay. That’s one really strong memory I have though. That’s beautiful. Yeah. And it’s true, isn’t it? Like there’s other people that can look after Josh, but this woman has a good child. Yes, yeah. And I really felt that connection with Lisa at that moment. She was very grateful and she just, she said, no, I’m not leaving.

17:47
Not leaving until I know that she’s good and she was panicked a little bit. I think it was pretty confronting. So did you have a birth photographer or just somebody taking photos? We just had a couple of midwives taking photos. Pretty hard to get birth photographers up there during COVID too. Mind you, I’d had COVID the week before giving birth to. Wow. That was really, really stressful. Yeah.

18:10
not part of the plan. I know of a couple of other surrogates that that’s happened to. And as we move through the photos just some you know life after birth so some big laughs happening here is different.

18:19
people have cuddles with Josh? Yeah, that’s me and Jared, my husband having cuddles with Josh. My hair looks a bit crazy. I’d actually shaved my head the year before, so I was having a regrowth. My hair doesn’t normally look like that. Yeah, I had a cannula in my arm because I got quite a bad mastitis infection and I was in and out of the hospital. I didn’t want to stay as an inpatient. I needed to be at home with my family during that time. I think it’s really important not to be locked in the hospital. So I’d go in three times a day to have the IV antibiotics to treat my mastitis, because it was quite bad. Yeah, and so if people listening

18:49
understand the enormity of that so you can get an infection from your breast milk and therefore you need hospitalization but you’ve got a family to juggle and so there are so many things to still juggle as a surrogacy team post-birth there. Yeah. Well done. And not just that the emotions I had a lot of emotion I was sick of being poked and prodded I just had enough so. Yeah fair enough and then some beautiful photos here of um

19:13
Dad Jared holding his little boy Josh and one of your enormous great Danes looking on at this little creature hey? The little Hooman. Yes, that was Luna. She loves babies. So yeah, he was having a little birth and she was checking it out and making sure that dad was doing a good job. And the other one’s Karajini. We went to Karajini down into the gorgeous, I think Josh was six weeks there. We went for a camping trip in our caravan because I drove that caravan up to Headland to um.

19:40
stay. So we all went on a little, I guess it was celebrating. Yes. So does that mean they were either staying on your property or very nearby? Yeah. So they were staying around the corner. We lived in company housing, so we didn’t have a lot of room. So they stayed at a caravan park just around the corner and had a pool. It was awesome. So we did a lot of swimming in the pool and stuff, but they would take Josh home at night. We’d have dinner all together, spend the day together. We’d have dinner and then they’d go home to their caravan, which as new parents to be living in a caravan, kudos. That’s amazing. So they did amazing. And yeah. Yeah.

20:10
things you do. And then I think last couple of photos to finish off here of some newborn photos all together. Yeah they’re beautiful.

20:17
Josh was being a bit grumpy that day. The things you remember, hey? Yeah. And that’s the second photo of the mums with the baby in between them. Yeah, love that came together and created a little life. Yep, and that’s the whole tribe. Whole tribe with you and your hubby and your kids, the intended parents, Lisa and Jared, their son, Josh. And the extra one is? Seth, which is Jared’s son from a previous relationship, but Lisa has known him since he was just a baby, so she’s mum too in my eyes. Yep, wonderful.

20:47
photos that we’ve got there and a great story. Thank you for sharing all of that with us. Before we started we were talking about the journey that is surrogacy and in terms of what does life look like after birth and there’s a saying sometimes in surrogacy sometimes under promise and over deliver and so for sometimes in terms of my team it was how much we thought we would keep in contact and what we said versus how much we have in reality. What about for your team? You know being long-distance did you have a…

21:13
in terms of how often you thought you might see each other in person? Yeah we had planned that every year around the birthdays we would catch up, around Joshua’s birthday I should say, that we would catch up or at least try. Life does get in the way, we’re building a house this year, me and my hubby, so funds are tight. Lisa and Jaron have also decided to build a house too, so their funds are tight. So we haven’t caught up as much as I would want to, but we did spend Christmas together last year, and we’re spending Christmas together this year in Bali. Right. Sometimes, you know, being such a long way apart, sometimes it’s possible

21:43
easier and cheaper to go to Bali to catch up. Oh yeah that’s the idea behind it yes and it’ll be for my 30th birthday so I turned 30 this year so. Wonderful young whippersnapper. Right. Being young and 30 um would you do it again? Well I’m glad you asked that question. I unfortunately due to complications had to have a hysterectomy after Joshua and I don’t think I mentioned that to you private um previous to this but yes I think I’m young I’m fit and it can happen

22:13
have to have a hysterectomy. Wow, how long after he was born did you have that? About a year after, yeah. I just had a lot of issues and.

22:21
Yeah, it’s just the best course of action. So that’s I mean, that’s a real wake up call, isn’t it? That you had to finish your family. Yeah. And you had. But I have. Yeah. But you the choice is taken away from you now. Absolutely. And I’m so young. It can happen to anyone. Was that the culmination of three pregnancies or was it mainly Josh’s pregnancy in birth? I think it was a combination of my last two pregnancies. So I had a massive bleed with my son. He was nine pounds. And then I had Josh and had a big bleed with him.

22:51
injuries. So just say. In terms of other supports that either were provided to you or that you would recommend to other surrogates and particularly being sick, what type of things would have been helpful or were helpful? And I suppose in terms of things that they could have paid for things like takeaway food or like is it HelloFresh boxes of food? Yeah I think more meals would have, I think meals are really important because especially in my house I have an autistic son so routine’s very

23:21
to maintain a lot of routine for him. So just even just having meals that so they’re there ready to go at a certain time that he’s ready for it or my daughter’s ready for it. Just things to keep the house moving as normal as it can be and meals is one of them cleanliness like cleanings and other. Yeah. Yeah. Did you find your kids were particularly engaged and involved in this journey? Obviously they watched their mum be pregnant but were they particularly connected with Lisa and Jared and in what ways? Yeah.

23:46
Yeah, yeah, I think Lisa and Jared put in a lot of effort to get to know my kids and my kids obviously just loved them because of that and particularly with my son because if you need to.

23:57
Autism’s hard in the best of times, but we’ll chuck surrogacy in there and he’s black and white about it He’ll say what he’s feeling that was important that we had the support there Mm-hmm. Yeah, what ways did they involve your kids took them out to places always engaging with them playing with them? Yeah, that was when they were in touch Did they find ways to like did you do any group video catch-ups or anything like that? Not really. We’re big snapchatters

24:22
So we’re always in contact that way and sending photos to and from the kids Snapchat or we occasionally video chat. But I guess if the kids had Snapchat too, then they were finding ways to engage. Yeah. Is there anything that you would do differently for your team or for your own journey? If COVID wasn’t around, it would be great. I would definitely love to have more time during the pregnancy to share scans. Cause you got to remember, I did all those scans by myself. I did all, everything was done, you know, with my husband when he could.

24:52
sharing that time. So spending those really important times together I would do differently. Yeah definitely. Are there any changes for surrogacy in Australia as a whole that you would like to see happen? I think the laws in WA need a catch-up.

25:05
Yes, yeah, that’s probably it. Yeah, they will. So with Surrogacy Australia, the organisation that I’m a part of, we’ve been part of a legal campaign for, I want to say two years now, in terms of pushing for the gay dads to be able to engage with lawyers, but they basically need a trial case and they need a team that’s prepared to do it, to get to the point of being told, no, you can’t. And then they’re allowed to appeal. And then that will give the impetus to change the law. The other way is to do a whole law reform, but that costs a lot of money.

25:34
And so this is the other way to go about it that we’ve been told and we’re working with lawyers on it. So it doesn’t cost money, just costs heartbreak though, doesn’t it? Because, you know, they get to the end of it and it’s a no, that’s good. Well, apparently.

25:45
Will be a no, but then when you put the appeal in it will be granted because it’s now against Commonwealth law Right because once gay marriage came in that removed discrimination So actually the WA law is in opposition apparently to Commonwealth law I think that that’s the impression that I’m under from the team that we’re sort of working with there So but it just yeah, it needs that change to happen

26:06
I guess if anybody thinks of anything after the webinar and you want to specifically be in contact with Sam, I can put you in contact with each other? Absolutely, yes. Is there any advice then that you would give to new surrogates or new IPs on this journey? Just do your homework, make sure it’s the right decision for you and your family as well and just remember that you might.

26:26
not be able to have kids after it. That people say it’ll never happen to me, but I was a 28 year old and lost my year. So let’s just remember that. Very true, right? It’s a really good reminder for us all. Yeah. Thank you for joining me. If you’d like to see the photos shared in this webinar presentation, head over to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy. Also check out our Zoom monthly catch up sessions.

26:53
which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child, and in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child. So welcome to the village.