Episode 74 – Lindsay – straight mum

00:00
Thanks for watching!

00:14
Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKie and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org During the one hour webinars I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer.

00:40
My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia, and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads, and straight mums. This episode, recorded in October 2024, features Lindsay. Lindsay’s SASS team is one that we have supported from their introduction through to birth and now beyond for a year. Lindsay and her husband, Anthony, from Brisbane, became parents to their son in February 2024. He was carried by surrogate Kim, who lives in Perth, WA.

01:07
A journey of over a decade to parenthood due to Lindsay’s complex health issues, including multiple surgeries and liver transplant. They met me at the Growing Families Conference in Brisbane in June 2021, joined SASS in October and were introduced to Kim five months later in March 2022.

01:24
I really enjoyed this webinar with Lindsay. Okay, to be fair, I enjoy every single co-host as their stories are unique and I always learn something new. I’ll share something about my behind the scenes work. After the webinar recordings, I then edit them into this podcast series. They’re also available on our YouTube channel, but I don’t edit out the ums and ahs of the video, so they’re a longer recording. While listening back to the recording and editing it for a podcast, I listen out for a gold gem.

01:50
which I can use as the title for the episode. I’ve chosen to do that as opposed to naming them after the co-host. I figure that if people find this series way into the future, they won’t have been in the surrogacy community at the time. Lindsay and Kim were a team, but they might relate to the title of the episode and be intrigued to listen further. There were so many gold gems in this episode. So let me share with you my alternative titles. You’re not just dating the surrogate, you’re dating her family.

02:20
Becoming a mum has been the best time of my life. Her body was ready to look after a child and the child wasn’t there. We’ve been extremely lucky, but we put in the work. I hope you enjoy this episode and have a listen out for when Lindsay expands on each of those ideas.

02:35
Thank you for joining us. Let’s go from the beginning. You needed a surrogate eventually. What brought you to that point? Many years of medical challenges. Give us a bit of a summary. Bit of a summary. So really complex health issues from when I was a child. Lots of surgery, including a major one at 18 that caused a lot of my issues. What had happened was all my medical teams were saying, you can be pregnant, it’d be fine, no worries. All that will happen is you couldn’t give birth naturally. It would have to be a C-section.

03:05
like, yep, no problem. So we pursued trying to get pregnant after I had a liver transplant. I had a liver transplant when I was 29. So you can’t get pregnant a year after having a transplant. That’s they just say that prior to transplant, I was told, don’t get pregnant, whatever you do, don’t get pregnant, don’t get pregnant. So from around the ages of 18 to 29. And then after 29, and the year was up and everything looked good. There was no rejection. They’re like, right, get pregnant, get pregnant, get pregnant. Okay. And it just wasn’t happening. So I

03:35
natural, I guess, we tried IUI, we started to make embryos, I guess, in preparation for, you know, hopefully having a successful transfer and just nothing was working. And it wasn’t until I got some great imaging done of my belly. And we actually went and saw a specialist sir to clean up in there. So what happens when you have so many surgeries is it becomes all sticky and hard and basically, so we had been trying probably eight or nine years by this time.

04:05
And we went to see him. This particular surgeon said, if you were my sister or my daughter, I would say do not get pregnant. It will be really unsafe. There’s no space in there. So we basically received that information. It was literally the next two weeks, the Growing Families Conference was in Brisbane. So it was this surgeon that said, no, it’s not gonna be safe. How about you consider surrogacy? And that’s the first I had ever heard that of adhesion. So what was going on in my belly. So no one had ever brought that up.

04:35
to consider surrogacy. So- That’s a lot to take on board and there’s a grieving process I’d imagine. Yeah, I was extremely angry. I felt like I had been medically mismanaged, if you will. So I know, oh yes, all these interventions saved my life, but at the same token, they didn’t ever consider my reproductive health. And I know it’s a bit controversial here, but it’s a bit different with males. So there’s a very easy does it with some of the surgeries in case they lose the ability to get an erection. So, you know, but yeah,

05:05
me it was just basically there was yeah there was no stopping or anyone saying listen you’re not going to get pregnant because of your health issues and all this other stuff. Sometimes it feels like nada um like how how did I not see that but we always had positive reinforcement that it’ll be all right it’s a good thing for you to get pregnant that was a big thing as well but yeah that took us to the growing families conference where we met. Yay! Yeah! At the beginning of your surrogacy

05:35
information to take in and you were still digesting the news that you even needed a surrogate. That’s right it was really overwhelming I wasn’t dealing with it very well.

05:44
all emotionally. So lots of crying, growing families conference was probably a bit too full on. We actually only made one day we didn’t go back the second day because there was lots of information not necessarily probably wasn’t the right target audience. So this was in 2021. So I was hitting 40 years old. So now age is creeping in as an issue. I just remember going to one seminar. And I remember it was a fertility specialist and I think it was sort of directed at same sex male couples. And they were talking about, oh, if you want

06:14
She has to be under 35, she can be over 18, that’s okay. And we bring them in from overseas and we make sure that their ovaries are really ripe. And like, I remember him saying, they’ll come in as big as watermelon.

06:27
And I just grinding my teeth, sitting in the audience going, Oh my God, because you know, that that was reinforcing to me, I’m over the hill. This isn’t going to happen, obviously. But then right after that one, that seminar we met. We did. You’re very kind. You came and comforted me. Like I was I didn’t want to see you distressed, but I appreciated that you were like because there was a lot. Yeah. So that it was a lot. Basically, I think my husband and I regrouped and then we finally joined.

06:57
asked that. Yeah. And so then you did the SASS process and then you created your profile and then you eventually well it turns out there was a surrogate across the other side of Australia that was looking and there was nobody in WA for her at that point in time. Yeah. Right fit and so she went let’s look further afield. Okay. And that’s probably a good time to go back to sharing the screen which is here and so then one day I know this is this photo is taken of that first Zoom

07:26
to take a screenshot because that could be the day that your life changes and the journey begins and then here we are many years later doing the webinar and so yes do you remember this day what you’re thinking and feeling? Yeah 100% I was very excited but at the same time very very nervous. You see me yeah with how I’m like holding my lips it’s like…

07:47
Kim’s very serious, she was business and Jeff there was Kim’s husband was very protective I remember that. I remember that yeah. Interesting though because that’s just one still shot there I think there was lots of talking and smiling and laughing but it’s hard on a screenshot to get everybody there so then that launched it off didn’t it and so then like

08:06
As part of SASS I guided you partly through the dating but then obviously you’re just building up a friendship in the background together. So through messages and chats and stuff so take us through, I’m just having a look at the set of photos, eventually you went to Perth and met them but give us a bit of a summary of um yeah the getting to know you stage. So what was wonderful was um I think as soon as we sort of hit the green light, yep let’s start dating per se Kim, um sorry I got messaged me because I was sort of like is it too soon? Am I too desperate? No you know um and not.

08:36
She was straight off and it was like, to me, it felt like we were good friends. Like conversation just rolled. Yeah. It was easy for us. It’s dating really, isn’t it? You were dating a woman. I was trying to make her laugh. That’s my thing. Did it work? Yes. Wonderful. I think also we’re of the same age. I understand that Kim was wanting to have an IP that was of the same age as her. So that’s where, you know, worked in my favor as well. And so we had a…

09:02
lot of cultural similarities, you know, like grew up during the same, same generation basically. So we love 90s hip hop. Yes, I was going to say. I’ve come to know that. Yes. Yeah. So just, yeah, that was quite important. So yeah. And so then you, you made the trek to Perth at some point in time to meet in person and see if it felt normal. Yeah, I had to write this down. I think we went to Perth in June of…

09:25
2022. Yeah, that was quite soon after we first sort of had that initial meeting, I think. Yeah. And I recall we met in a park, so very neutral, neutral. Were you there for a weekend or a week or something? I think we were there for a week. We had a hotel. So we basically did our own thing. And then we would meet up every so often. So those those like meetings or those.

09:48
dinners or the meetup in the park were quite condensed and lots to talk about. And then you had some time to sort of retreat back, you know, defrag, so to speak, just reflect on what was said and how you felt about things and yeah. Yep. That’s good. And then at some point in time, we’ve got some other beautiful photos here. Aw. Two of her three kids came up to Brisbane. So that was in September. I’m sorry, my dates are all out. It’s okay. It doesn’t matter. A couple of months later. Yeah. A few months later. So Kim and her beautiful.

10:18
daughters came and visited us in Brisbane and of course we have to go to Lone Pine and hold a Koala and if you can see Zoe’s shirt there, the little one on the left, that’s a picture she drew of Kim giving me a baby which is quite important because during this trip Kim actually proposed to be our surrogate. Very wonderful. Yes, when I had Kim on the webinar a fortnight ago and we shared her photos of the journey which are all very similar ones. Yeah.

10:48
shirts and the making of it and the kids understanding of what surrogacy is and kids often understand oh you know shall we grow Lindsay and Anthony, Anthony a baby yep her tummy’s not working yep we’ll just do that. Yeah standard catch ups you know. Standard catch up back in WA I guess just more getting to know you because what you got to remember is you’re not just dating the surrogate you’re dating the family and they’re involved in this just as much as the surrogate their

11:18
mom is going to be pregnant and carry somebody else’s child. So it affects everyone in the family, which is really important to acknowledge that and respect how they feel. Is that something when you were at the beginning and thinking of finding a surrogate, it’s probably hard to even imagine?

11:35
that there’s many more people involved in this, that it’s her partner as well and her kids that you’re having to get involved with? Yeah, definitely at the beginning, I didn’t realize how many lives it touches, but I think after that first visit and how involved the children were and the understanding and how supportive they were of their mother, you get the gravity of it. They’re there in… Yeah, it’s a full team effort there, isn’t it? Yeah.

11:57
And then particularly sometimes we say the partners of surrogates sometimes are the unsung heroes of this. For sure, absolutely. Were there times in particular you can think of them that Jeff was particularly helpful or played his role? Oh, a hundred percent. He was the voice for Kim when I think she maybe couldn’t communicate her point or couldn’t quite put it towards what she wanted, especially she had a lot of, not fear, but she was a bit worried about the hospital we had chosen. She had been there before and had had a bad experience. We needed to ensure that she understood

12:27
that we were her advocates, we were her voice. And Jeff was basically her gatekeeper in some way. And then obviously picking up the slap.

12:35
Although I don’t think Kim had a lot of slack at all. She was very well during her pregnancy. Although I think she had a bad sciatica, but she just pushed on and she never really complained or made it really knowing that she was struggling. But I think Jeff was there if she did need assistance. Yeah. They’re often there for that day to day, helping out with the physical things with the kids and the household. And also sometimes that emotional stuff, watching their partner be tired and hormonal again, during pregnancy. It was so supportive. I think Kim mentioned

13:05
last week, he actually cried after our son was born. And Kim was like, hang on a minute, you didn’t even cry during our kid’s birth. So what’s going on here? And it was because he was so proud of her that she had this goal and she put her mind to it and she had achieved it in that moment. So he wasn’t crying because you know, our son had been born that Kim had done this. Yeah. Yeah. So he has a big ripple effect, doesn’t it? 100%. Yeah. Oh yes. On the right here is Kim

13:35
proposal so special for us. So you can see the little card there and it has a beautiful message inside and then these cookies, which I still have in my freezer by the way. And so uterus at first sight. Yes, yes. And let’s bake a baby. Let’s bake a baby. I think my husband and I were quite speechless when the proposal very, very thoughtful family was there, but it kind of took us by shock because

14:01
We didn’t realize it would happen so quickly. Thought we were in for a bit more of a longer journey, but we were just blown away by how thoughtful it was. Yeah, it had still been quite a few months though, I think five or six or something. But you were still, you didn’t, as IPs, you don’t want to be presumptuous as to when it happened. Oh, that’s right, that’s right. I guess, and then there’s a proposal, and so then there’s a lot that’s happening between here, because this is the photo of embryo transfer. Is there anything to summarize of the counseling and legal stage that you then, the journey you went on there?

14:31
all four of us together. What we actually did is we went through the SASS questions, I think, you know, getting to know each other. And we had set them out in a spreadsheet about before pregnancy or during pregnancy, birth and then after birth. And we put all the questions in and we sort of put our opinions on what we thought about abortion. And then we would discuss those thoughts there. And I think we got a lot out of the counseling sessions because we were able to put it forward. And she and I are

15:01
older parents. So we were quite worried if the child needed extra care when they were born and then into older age if they couldn’t live independently. And so we needed to discuss that and how Kim and her family felt about abortion. And this spreadsheet sort of helped us document what our agreement.

15:19
where or how we had sort of come to an answer on a particular subject. But obviously it’s not set in stone. You can change your mind at any time. It’s just so we could remember what we discussed because there is a lot of things to get through. I find these children are very planned and considered. If every other hetero couple that ever conceived a child went through this much planning and thought before they got pregnant, imagine how considered this world would be. Oh, 100%. That’s for sure. So what’s important here is that we found out

15:49
for a couple days before Kim arrived that pineapples were a good luck thing.

15:55
for surrogacy. So Kim had brought these socks for us to wear and everyone wore them. Back in Perth, Jeff wore them. The children had pineapple attire on. We ate pineapple. And then after the transfer, we actually ate McDonald’s french fries, which is another good luck. That’s another good luck. And I’m happy. I love french fries. Yes. I must have missed that one. I’m not sure really where it comes from, but I missed out on my french fries.

16:20
And so it worked first embryo transfer, is that right? Yeah, it sure did. How many embryos did you have in the freezer? Three. Yeah, okay. Yeah. And then pregnancy begins. Now these photos here of the baby shower, but there’s clearly a lot that happens before that. Is there anything that you want to summarize about the pregnancy and for Kim or for yourselves? So we went, due to Kim being in Perth, we went over, I think, a couple of times, specifically for the morph scan to find out the sex of the baby. It was really important.

16:50
when we found out what sex the child was and that was pretty special to be there and share that moment. And then for all the other appointments, especially leading up to the end, leading up to the birth, we were on the phone so we would all FaceTime.

17:05
and just be, you know, be present even if we were in Brisbane. Yes, I know for teams that live locally there might be ways that the intended parents can help out physically with looking after kids or food and stuff. What ways were you able to support Kim during her pregnancy from afar? Um, you know on reflection I wish I had done that there like if I had to, yeah. It was difficult so we were very, um, there was money on the card.

17:29
if you needed to get takeaway, if, um, you know, for the stuff like that, I hope we communicated that well. I would have loved to have been around the corner to have helped Kim at times. She definitely didn’t need it. She’s super, super capable. She was, yeah, in reflection. I wish I had done more in that space. I don’t, it’s quite hard being, being quite far away. Like I would have loved to have dropped off cooked meals and all that sort of stuff. I had gotten in contact with Kim’s best friends. I had asked Kim’s permission, of course. I didn’t just go and contact them, but if they could let me know.

17:59
if Kim was suffering essentially and she wasn’t telling us so I sort of yeah asked for them because I felt they would be honest and they would be able to approach me. They never did. That’s a great technique, a great strategy to have that extra connection there and I suppose of course you’re still maintaining your friendship with Kim through your messages and contact so you’re… Oh yeah we spoke nearly every day I think yeah and she would always let me know how she’s doing and all that sort of stuff so we’re very much interestingly not people that like to speak on

18:29
we text a lot, you need to establish your communication style. So if I was a person who spoke on the phone or needed to speak on the phone and she was a person that really didn’t like that, we might have some issues there. But luckily we both were texters. So we responded quite quickly because that was our main way of communicating. That worked well for us. That’s a good point. Yeah, making sure that stuff is talked about.

18:52
how you communicate. Because when you said just before, we talk nearly every day, I was pretty sure it wasn’t on the phone because I knew that from Kim. No, so yeah. You clarified that, so that’s good. It’s texting. Texting, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maybe we should have talked, I don’t know. She was so busy. She has three. That’s it, she’s got.

19:07
kids and work to juggle as well. So it’s so, yes, sorry, I guess just sort of get on with it. Yeah. Yeah. And so then you had a baby shower and um, Kim, Kim came up to Brisbane for that. It was really important for us that Kim was involved and essentially it was celebrating baby but also honoring Kim and her family and just the journey that we’ve all been on together and how amazing I can’t even put it in words.

19:32
How amazing. We had a video here that you can see on the left that we had messages from around the world but it was really important because Jeff and the kids couldn’t make it that we had a message for Kim about how they felt. And so that was a little video clip of Jeff and the kids saying how proud they are of her. Yeah what was quite funny is the eldest daughter said oh very very nice what you’ve done you know it’s taken a long time but don’t do it again like so you know just

20:02
miss their mum. They’ve sacrificed as well. Yeah that’s true. That whole family helped you start your family. Yeah. And so then it gets closer to the time of birth so you went over to Perth. Do you remember roughly how long before due date that you went over? I thought it was two weeks before. Yeah. We engaged it with Kim. So we you know we knew that the pregnancy was tracking well, she was healthy, wasn’t expected to be early and when she was finishing up work it was really yeah

20:32
Yeah. Baby brain, baby brain. I’m allowed to claim baby brain. Sorry. Absolutely. Kim’s given you permission. We all give you permission. You’ve been raising a child. Absolutely. But yeah, so we actually went on a baby moon. When you were in Perth. Yeah. So we went up to the Margaret River. Very, very long. I sort of asked Kim if it was okay, because it felt kind of wrong that she’s the one that was pregnant and we’re the ones going on holiday. So she’s like…

20:56
You need to have a baby moon. She was very supportive. She thought it was fantastic. So that sort of gave us permission. Nice. If I’m remembering that right. And that brings us to the day of birth hey. So we’ve got pretty powerful images here. Talk us through that or tell us what you’re feeling when you look back at these photos. Oh yikes. So our son arrived right on time early in the morning. I think it was around 4am. I recall asking Kim if

21:25
the birth from the business end to sound quite crude there. And it was just so emotionally charged. I’ve never been so present in a moment in all my life where everything slowed down, but sped up. Everything made sense. And just watching this incredible woman calmly just give birth to our son was just probably one of the most incredible moments of my entire life. There’s never, there’s no, not enough thank yous in the world.

21:51
just she’s amazing it was absolutely just it was a perfect birth. Good yeah beautiful lovely to hear you say that and and for Kim to then hand you your son and you become a mum and a dad. Yeah so what’s important here is that it was really important to Kim that she handed the child over so that sounded really wrong sorry that she gave birth she held our baby and then she handed us the baby so no

22:21
did everything to ensure that the hospital knew that was the plan, the midwives knew that was the plan, the OB-GYN who just sat in the corner really, knew that was the plan. So everyone was on the same page. We met with the hospital a couple of weeks before we went in. It was a Catholic hospital. So I was a little bit worried that they were gonna be a bit funny about certain things because we had heard horror stories, so to speak, where the IPs get kicked out when visiting hours are over

22:51
back in. So we had gone through a lot of effort to we met with the hospital, we actually FaceTime them a few times. So the midwife team, the actual hospital administrative team, we wanted to know that we could stay at the hospital would have our own bedroom, so to speak our own room, it would be opposite Kim. And then as the day grew closer that we actually met them in person and just reiterated the points. So and they were they were wonderful, really, there was a few things. So they said,

23:21
care would go through Kim and then to us. So Kim would have to tell us. So we’re like, yeah, Kim was like, yeah, no problem. I’ll just tell them to go speak to you. But we had no issues there at all because our son didn’t really need any medical interventions or anything like that. We couldn’t leave. We had to leave together. So that was another part to navigate is that if the surrogate or the child needed extra medical care. Yeah. But so did you stay in hospital together for a couple of nights? Yeah. So we stayed, we just did the five days and we stayed.

23:51
there together. Ah, our son was in the room with us and Kim was across the hall or down the next room and she was welcome to come in at any time. She was very respectful. She would say text us, are you up or whatever’s happening? Um, and we would check in and it was important to her that her family come and visit and saw the baby. So we made sure that happened. So just what each other’s expectation is in the hospital, but yeah, we had to leave together.

24:15
Remember the hospital saying that yeah, they said we don’t care what you do in the car park, but yeah The the baby has to leave him essentially. Yeah, and so here’s a photo of that departure morning, I guess Yeah, that’s us straight, you know on day five I think we were out of there and then it all starts to move on you you become mum. Hey, and I know it has been

24:35
the best time of my life, I must admit. I had no idea. You go through life and you have happy moments and nice things happen, but to have a constant wonderful warm feeling and just I’ve met so many exceptional people, like through mother’s groups, I made deep and meaningful connections and I had no idea. I’ve just been, it’s probably been the best time of my life as a mother. Yeah, lovely to hear. Well, it’s been a long journey for you to get to this point. So yeah, and then was this at the parentage or today? This is a parenting or parentage

25:05
order date. Yes it is. Our son was able to burp in front of the judge and pass gas so that’s really awesome. I must admit I didn’t expect it was going to be how it was going to be so we were in front of a judge and it was um it wasn’t the state board. Was it? Yes. She, the judge had a secretary and a person taking notes and then all these other legal members so I you’re not just in front of a judge you’re in front of a panel.

25:30
it felt like. And what happened was there was a case, another surrogacy case for us. So we’ve made friends. Sorry. And she was saying things that were incorrect. And I felt so I had to stand up and sort of correct what she was saying because, you know, she was saying that, you know, it was lovely that your good friend could do this for you. And I’m like, no, no, no, no stranger, but a good friend now. Like, yeah, yeah. Life long.

25:54
best friend. Yeah. Educating people along the way even then. Oh no. Some people just for those that listening, sometimes teams all go to court together but obviously due to the distance across Australia that that didn’t happen but you guys were there on the day. I think I think Kim would have loved to have been there but you know life has three children to look after and yeah life is in her so we had to send a proxy which is a lawyer I guess, Garis, which basically says two words no

26:24
there quite emotional I could hear my mum sort of crying and my dad and sisters behind us so yeah it was a beautiful moment for your mum that her daughter became a mum. Yeah that’s right um so this picture on the left here is my first mother’s day which was really really special I never thought would happen yes. Wearing matching outfits. I thought I noticed that yes matching. That was wonderful. Well they are that’s a beautiful set of photos that you shared with us.

26:52
Thank you for going through all of those. You joined SAS, Lindsay. Yeah. Why was that? I think at the time we didn’t know what we were doing. We were so overwhelmed with emotions. There was so much information to navigate through. You know, obviously meeting yourself as well, being so lovely and kind. It just made sense to, yeah, to join SAS. In retrospect, what was really important is that our surrogate had the support and I knew that she did have the support of SASS if she felt nervous.

27:20
approaching us or needed, you know, needed you guys to speak on her behalf. That was an option. We never had to use it, but

27:27
That was good to know that was possible. So I’ve written notes down, and my phone keeps shutting. Also what was great is you gave us tips on how to be successful. So that was really helpful. And I think that the screening and the matching, it was like half the work had been done already. Does that make sense? Yes. So this is sort of sense of peace, knowing that they’re checked, you’re checked. Yeah. That everybody is of same mind, they want this project. It’s not a whimsical idea. No. That we’re getting a committed surrogate. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So that was sort of like,

27:57
hard work had kind of been done in a way. Yeah. And we’re going to say one other thing about the mentor. Mentor. So yeah, we had a mentor, similar age, similar situation. Um, and that was extremely helpful. She was wonderful. Uh, we only really chatted a couple of times, I guess. I was very nervous about the whole thing. Like I seriously thought, Oh, we’ll just have a baby and we’ll tell everyone, Oh, look, he’s a baby. I had to, I guess, mourn the reality that I wasn’t going to have a child.

28:26
and that took a little time, but it was really important to embracing the whole process and not having any resentment during the process so you could be fully supportive of the surrogate and of her journey and her needs, if that makes sense. Yeah. That you’re not putting any of your grief onto her pregnancy. Yeah and I remember her husband Jeff in the early days he said that sometimes you can tell when some of the ladies that unfortunately can’t get pregnant like myself, they have

28:56
a lot of resentment.

28:57
and it comes out. But he said, which I found quite lovely that he didn’t receive that from me. So I was like, oh good. I don’t have any. Yeah. Lovely. I’m going to do one question that’s popped up from Bernadette’s clarifying that the SASS membership open you up to match with more potential surrogates. There’s more IPs than surrogates. And so there’s a pool of IPs that are waiting to connect. And some of them might find their own in that time, or some will be introduced or get a match from a

29:27
and then she’s ready. She gets to look at the pool of IPs across Australia. I make recommendations based on what she said she’s looking for but then ultimately she gets to pick and then we guide them through exactly what you’ve heard here. So she’s written back thank you so that’s answered that one there.

29:42
So we were talking about post birth, that understanding that sometimes in the community, they talk about head heart hormones and the head and the heart of a surrogate know where baby is. We do not want to raise any more children, but hormonally the surrogate’s gone through birth and her body’s adjusting to not having a baby. Talk us through what that looked like for your team. So when our son was born or leading up, I was getting, I was letting in the noise and I was getting extremely worried and anxious that we’re taking him away from everything he knows and that it’s going to traumatize.

30:12
him in some way because that that’s what some people say but I can say hand on heart that’s not the case at all um our son couldn’t care he was looking after him as long as somebody was looking after him as long as someone was loving him as long as someone was feeding him and bathing him he was content he was safe warm happy little baby he didn’t know who was doing it because I thought oh they’re gonna imprint you know but

30:35
realities. These are my words that our surrogate actually suffered a bit, um, well had suffered because her body was ready to look after a child and the child wasn’t there. So I think it’s really important to, to recognize this and support her through this. It was sad like, um,

30:51
I didn’t realize how much it did affect her. Even after we had left and gone home, I understand that if you heard a baby or saw a baby bring up a lot of anxiety, I found that tremendously sad that she had to suffer that way.

31:07
Were there things, were there examples that you can think of that you remember witnessing that or are there things that you could do differently or advice you would give? I remember we were meeting with the hospital and it was the head midwife said something like, oh are you really, you said something that I think Kim in that moment realized the gravity of what was going to happen that she never wanted to keep the baby, never, never, never, never, never. But I think she was like, oh yes, um, my body is ready to care for a child and there’s no child to be cared for. Um, and I,

31:37
she realized how much it would affect her. I thought it would be a little bit more easy. These are my words. I hope I’m not putting words in her mouth and that’s how I interpreted the situation. To be honest, yeah, I think most surrogates until you’ve done it, we don’t actually realize what I got here with postnatal depression, but some things that I would do because you get maternity leave as a surrogate. My daughter had a doll that had a really heavy head and I remember walking around with that doll around the house here, tucked up my jumper and the sense of I have

32:07
just needed that baby if I could have a cuddle that day. Yeah so we were really open to Kim seeing our son whenever she wanted because we were in Perth for about five weeks after birth and Kim was amazing she pumped for us which I didn’t realize how much of an effort that would be so we saw a lactation consultant prior to birth and she wrote out this schedule and it’s like Kim had to pump every three to four hours. Kim’s just said in the chat there 100 correct the anxiety was very

32:37
the sight of a pregnant person or baby put me into a spiral. Yeah. I remember that too, Kim. Yeah, so in the early days I was thinking about that, like as I was caring for our son and I was thinking about Kim a lot and how she must be feeling. It’s a hard thing to navigate. You were also saying then that the amazing woman that she is pumped milk for your son too. Yeah, so I was like, yeah, she’s gonna pump some milk, thinking that’s it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It’s a schedule.

33:04
You have to wean into it, you have to wean out of it, or you’ve got to take the drugs. And it’s a huge commitment. So for her to have done that for our son, to make sure he has the best start of life, is just truly, yeah, no words again.

33:16
speechless. Yeah, I’m forever thankful to make sure yeah to Kim for doing that. That’s beautiful. Yeah, a second gift there gift of life and a gift of milk. Yeah, perfect. Yeah. My husband and Kim would sometimes meet in car parks, you know, to do an exchange. So here’s the SGO. So that looked a bit suss but hey ho, it’s just, and then just not taking it for granted. And knowing when the surrogate or Kim, you know, that’s we had discussed when that would stop. So it all it fell on Easter. And through Kim,

33:46
So in counselling, Kim had expressed that, you know, on Easter, our family has a trip plant and we think that’s a natural separation. So she’s got this wonderful thing planned with her family and they go in their separate ways and that’s when our relationship in Perth for the birth ends. So it was like a natural little ending there which worked well. So yeah, so the milk supply, I remember she wrote on the milk, the last milk bag for Finn.

34:14
you know, enjoy money. It’s the last one. So, and he did, he did, loved it. Yeah. And that wasn’t weird. It wasn’t weird at all. If anyone’s, no, cause you want the best for your child and this is it. That. And ultimately, I mean, people use, um, donor milks, but this milk was made for your child. It was made. Yeah. So we did try donor milk when we came back to Brisbane and our son just was like, no, no, no, no, no. He turned his nose up at it.

34:40
And it’s because Kim had just given birth, so her body is primed in time with him and what he needs. Yeah, donor milk wasn’t quite the same. Well, to sum it up, is there any last bits of parting advice that you’d like to give to those listening or any comments on your team and your journey? We had a wonderful journey with our surrogate and her team and her family and extended family. I couldn’t imagine doing it with anyone else. We’ve been extremely lucky, but we put in the work. We did the counseling sessions. We spoke through,

35:10
and once were and came to agreements or settled on issues and respected what Kim wanted. She would always say, this is your baby, this is your baby. You need to honor her and her pregnancy. And a part of that is our son knowing his story. And that’s why I said at the start, it was no dramas that his name was on a birth certificate with her, her name, with Kim’s name and her husband’s name and her family’s name, because that’s his story. And that’s okay with me and my husband, Anthony. Our son’s got to know his story and how he came

35:40
It’s a beautiful story that he’ll have growing up and I look forward to seeing it progress. And I’m so proud of you guys as a team. And I think you’ve done surrogacy in Australia so well. You’ve written what it stands for. So well done guys. Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording.

36:02
If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SAS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you’ve found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.