Episode 71 – Tim – gay dad

00:00
Thanks for watching!

00:13
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKay, and my aim is to raise the level of awareness of surrogacy through these conversations. This podcast is a recording from a webinar that I host, and you can find more details about those and upcoming dates on our website at surr The webinars are free, go for an hour, and will take you through how surrogacy works in Australia. You can ask questions, typing them in anonymously if you prefer.

00:41
and you hear from a co-host who has navigated surrogacy in Australia, either a surrogate, a gay dad or a straight mum. This episode, recorded in September 2024, features Tim. Tim and Sasha joined SASS in January 2022, having attended the Rainbow Families Seminar and the Growing Families Conference the previous year in 2021. In May 2022, I introduced them to their surrogate Lizzie as part of SASS and they began surrogating as complete strangers.

01:09
Tim and Sasha met their IVF doctor during the Growing Families Conference. They later created their embryos with their IVF clinic in Los Angeles with an American donor. Fast forward to May, 2023, Tim, Sasha and Lizzie traveled to LA for an embryo transfer and it was a success at first try. Atticus was born a healthy chubby boy in February, 2024. Tim has shared their story at a Growing Families Conference exactly two years after meeting Lizzie. It was the same conference where they met their doctor.

01:38
lawyer Stephen Page, and counselor Katrina Hale in person for the first time. SASS members need to attend one of these webinars that I host as part of their SASS application. It was a full circle moment as Tim had attended a webinar in December nearly three years ago when Josh was co-host and he felt so overwhelmed with all of the information. And now here he is being co-host and helping others at the beginning of their journey.

02:02
If you are at the beginning of your journey, I hope this podcast is valuable to you and you reach out to me in the future to be a co-host once you’ve completed a journey. You’re welcome to contact me at any stage though, as I’d love to cheer you on during your journey and to find out how you’re going. I hope you enjoy this episode. Tim, thank you for joining us.

02:21
Got some beautiful photos to share here of your journey. I guess, take us back to the beginning. As I’ve said in the introduction, you were a SaaS team. So in terms of how did you meet your surrogate, well, that was through me and SaaS and I introduced you. What took you to join SaaS, I suppose? Is that the path that you’d always decided or as opposed to finding a surrogate from your own networks? Take us back to your thinking back at the beginning. Okay, so we had our first webinar in December, 2021.

02:48
It’s all a bit of a blur now, was it? Yeah, I think it was, yes. Yeah, and then in January 2022, we submitted our profile to join SAS. I think we always knew we were going to join SASS because it’s just really, we were that overwhelmed with the amount of information. It just felt like we couldn’t do it this way without SAS. And also, our attitude towards surrogacy was that we would leave no stone unturned. So SASS also had that.

03:18
you know, you have this database where IPs can potentially get matched with a surrogate. So we always knew that we will take time to prepare our profile and submit our profile with SAS, so potentially be able to find our surrogates through SAS. And well, turns out that was the case. And I think in March 2022, that was when we submitted our profile. It was all ready to go. And I said to SAS,

03:42
We have at least 12 months to enjoy our life, travel around Europe and I want to go to exotic destinations like Turkey and Israel. Nah, in May you sent me an email. I checked three times to make sure it wasn’t a scam because you said Sarge potentially wants to meet us. And Sasha just said to me, well, what are you waiting for? Let’s just get the ball rolling. 30th of May, I remember that was the first day.

04:12
Sydney so that was the photo on the top left. We did so much walking I was surprised that she offered to be our surrogate and it was a big night. And then the bottom left picture that was the first time we met Lizzie’s daughter. For Charlotte we took her take off her bucket list item which is a dinner at Sydney Eye Tower or the Westfield Tower as some people know it so that was fun. From there we also

04:40
Got to know, and this is the beauty of surrogacy, I suppose you get to know your surrogacy entire family, her siblings, her parents, her nephews, nieces, if she’s got nieces, nieces. So for us, it’s just wonderful. I guess later on we will talk about what happily after looks like, but these days we can visit Lizzie, we can visit her sister. Sometimes we go up to the central coast to visit her parents.

05:04
just have a really good friendship. Yeah, that I really enjoyed their company. That’s lovely. And I think there’s people to see these photos of real people, catch ups. For some people that might be a little bit overwhelming at the beginning to go, oh wow, it’s not just a surrogate you’re building a connection with. It’s her, her children and her sister and family and extended friends. Did you feel overwhelming sometimes or you just…

05:26
went with the ride. So once we met with Lizzie, and that was about the same time we joined the Growing Family Conference, where we met our IVF doctor, we met Katrina, we met our lawyer, Steve Page. And I guess because they’re all professionals, they’re the best at what they do. Everything just fall into place, and we have you and SASS support. And actually, as Sasha put it, we had our team assemble.

05:51
We just need to do start dating and get to know each other, Lizzie and I get to know each other to make sure we Do want to go down this path we are right for each other

06:00
But in terms of counseling, legal and medical support, I think we got that sorted from very early on and thanks to growing family conference as well. And then the bottom right picture there, that’s Lizzie’s sister, Michelle, and one of Michelle’s son Arthur. So we had a tapas night and that’s one of the nights that we spent together doing Saturday dating and that was the first time we met Michelle as well. The top photo on the right, that’s a year later, that’s Mardi Gras. So…

06:28
Lizzie always wanted to go to Mardi Gras, but she never had anyone to go with her until she had her gay IP. So we make sure she got front row seat on Oxford Street. That was right outside of Columbia Hotel. And she brought her best friends with us that night. Yes, it was a really, really wonderful night. That’s wonderful. Yes, so colorful and yes, different groups of friends merging together there.

06:52
And then we’ll move through the photos. And so you made a point of getting to know, obviously Lizzie’s family, she’s a single mom with two kids here. So this is some of the catch-ups. Yeah. So this is again, during Mardi Gras season. So the parade is probably too much for kids. So this is Fair Day, which is a lot more family friendly, family oriented. And the kids had a good day. Really great experience at Mardi Gras Fair Day, which is at Sydney Uni in 2022. That’s Lizzie’s, I suppose, ex-partner.

07:22
So he was there that day to help minding the kids as well. Later on, he told me someone grabbed his butt. So I was jealous because no one grabbed my butt that day anyway. So that’s that. But yeah, everyone had a good day. Yeah. He took it as a compliment. So that’s good. That’s wonderful. And I think just some unique things happening there is so Lizzie is a single mom and that’s her ex partner that he’s a great example of. He clearly knew the journey that she went on because his kids are essentially in the house with their pregnant mom. And.

07:51
that she’s carrying this child for you. And so it sounds like it was, you know, you might not have seen him all the time, but fairly amicable and that he at least knew what was going on in his kids. Yeah, there were days where Lizzie got a bit sick, a bit under the weather and he could step in when we were not there to provide instant support because he…

08:11
At the time he lived down the road and he helped out quite a lot. And yeah, I think massive thanks to Luke. Yeah. And I guess it shows how surrogacy really brings people together. And it takes a village to bring a child into this world. I guess that’s true for every teen. It is so true. And although at the beginning, some people might go, OK, just need to find a surrogate. You realize you don’t just find a surrogate. You find her family and extended family and friends. So you sort of have to be prepared to invest that time in lots of people.

08:41
And so then you then that sorry dated for a few months and then got to know each other. And then it’s quite a bit that’s happening between these photos because then you go on your counseling and your legal journey and start to engage with your clinic in America. And eventually you went to America for the embryo transfers. Is there anything you want to summarize then of what I’ve just said about the dating stages or the counseling and legals that you’d like to mention? Yeah, because before this you asked me, was there any hard part during surrogacy journey?

09:10
For us, the heartbeat was actually the preparation of the embryo transfer. When you do an embryo transfer, there is the natural transfer and then there’s a medicated way of embryo transfer, right? So I suppose in Australia, the natural transfer is, is the go-to option. And if that doesn’t work, then the clinic go to medicated cycle. At least that’s what I was told.

09:31
But in the US it’s actually the other way around. So they always start with medicated cycles. And if that doesn’t work, then the clinics over there will try natural cycles. So I think we went into this just assuming that everything will be okay. The clinic over there said we will do medicated cycle and we were, Lizzie and us, we were all like, okay, yeah, just tell us what we need to, what drugs we need to take and give us the calendar. And then when Lizzie started taking the medication, she had an adverse reaction to the medication.

10:01
We didn’t know and she didn’t know either, only that she just knew she was very emotional. And that was the bit, there were about a week where she continued to take those medications because she didn’t want to let the team down, but none of us knew that she should really stop taking the medications and we should talk to the doctor and ask what’s going on, should we try a natural cycle? But…

10:25
Eventually, we found an OBGYN based in Sydney, Dr. Justin Tucker, who had a second opinion. And that’s when he said, it sounds like you are having a reaction to the drugs. Why don’t you try natural cycle and push your doctor in the US? See if they’re willing to accommodate. And that’s how a natural cycle came about. And because we decided to support easy for natural cycle, a 10-day trip turned into a three-week trip. So we have to do all the tourist stuff that can possibly be done.

10:54
in LA when we were there. And the photos here are the days we spent in Disneyland because we always knew we’re contractually obliged to take Lizzie to Disneyland. And that’s the way we explained to our nephews who are too young to understand IVF. We told them Lizzie went to Disneyland and came back pregnant. Oh wow. And that’s that. But Lizzie’s done. I mean, just to his credit, I guess kids just…

11:17
things so straightforward in such a straightforward manner. He asked us, when are you guys gonna have a second child? I said, why you ask? And he said, cause I want to go to Disneyland too, to which I have to say there are cheaper ways to get you to Disneyland than having a second child.

11:36
But yeah, it was a wonderful trip. Stressful, sure. But I think looking back, and I think Josh said this as well, is that when it comes to pregnancy, best to just leave it to your surrogate. They know their body, just let them do their job. And then once the child is born, you worry about parenting. But during pregnancy, trust them, trust that they know their body and just let them do their job. And for us, it was the right thing, because the policy to do the natural cycle because it was the success at first go. Yeah. Excellent, yes.

12:05
And this is, I think, the photo of that embryo transfer day. On the left, that was the first checkup. On the right, I believe that was the transfer day. Yes. And in between there were five blood tests. You have to do blood tests every second day to track the cycle, to track.

12:20
the sign of ovulation and yeah, the ovulation just didn’t happen soon enough. And then, um, um, yeah, two five blood tests to work out the exact day that we’re going to do the embryo transfer. And we flew back home from LA to Sydney on the same day. So it is possible. It is doable. And in fact, the doctor said, yes, that’s not a problem. After the embryo transfer is best that you just get back to your normal life as soon as possible. Don’t do bed rest. That was the advice. Once we threw the photos, I’m going to come back and talk about the donor a bit more.

12:50
But Tim’s team was very lucky that it did work for us, Denver, a transfer, and they didn’t have to go back as a team. We had been talking about that, but we were sort of like, let’s hope for the best. And it worked. And so then.

13:01
Lizzie is pregnant for the third time and these are some beautiful maternity photos. Do you remember to summarize the pregnancy? How was it for Lizzie? Was it similar to her others or was it hard for her? Yeah, we were a bit nervous. I think I was certainly I was a bit nervous about pregnancy because with Jonathan, she had preeclampsia, but with Charlotte, she had other complications as well. I was more worried about her being prone to headache and nausea. But I think we were largely spare.

13:31
certainly definitely no sign of preeclampsia when Elise was pregnant with Jonathan. That was one thing we were really worried about. So pregnancy wise I think it was relatively smooth sailing I would say. How often did you see each other as a team during the pregnancy? Obviously seeing as you were both in Sydney or near Sydney you went to appointments but what type of supports?

13:55
you’re offering during pregnancy, I know for IPs at the beginning, they might be wondering about, oh, what sort of things can we do during pregnancy? Pretty sure there was only one test that we were not there because we were in Melbourne, the Harmony test that Lizzie had to do. But we were there for every single scan. If you include scans, I think we see Lizzie once every, on average once every week or once every 10 days. So I would say average about that. In terms of support.

14:21
So we actually found this amazing helper who actually studied at the same school as Lizzie’s daughter, but one year ahead. And because she lives locally close to Lizzie, so we basically pay her to provide a lot of support to Lizzie in terms of cleaning, cooking, childcare. And she really act as a role model for both Charlotte and Jonathan. So they were quite well behaved when Annabel was around. So she’s been great help. And we continue to lean on her help.

14:50
post-birth as well. And that was actually one thing that, that was actually initially Sasha’s idea asking Lizzie, do you know any kids that might, that might want to work and get some money. And yeah, and she found Annabel. Excellent. Yeah, we also helped cleaning Lizzie’s backyard and that took three.

15:10
Three of us working 10 hours for a full day just to transform her house and her backyard so that she can enjoy her swimming pool during summer to take off the weight of that pregnancy. Yeah. During weekend where we do visit, wherever we can help say with laundry and whatnot, we’ll try to help, you know, or pack up for Jonathan’s spring trip and those things. Surrogates can be very independent women though and sometimes asking or accepting help.

15:37
can be a bit of a challenge with surrogates, can’t it? Yeah, it’s like Katrina said, just do it, just offer, give her help and then if she doesn’t want it, she will tell you to go away. But otherwise don’t ask, because most likely she’s gonna say, I’m fine, don’t worry. That’s good advice. And then yeah, these beautiful photos here towards the end of pregnancy with a big full belly there. Yes, yes, I think at this point, I think Antica’s supposed to kind of arrive by this point.

16:02
Eventually he was 10 days late, so Lizzie was like really heavily pregnant, but we did our pregnancy shoot near her house in Blue Mountains. That’s Lincoln’s Rock. Yeah, it was a beautiful day. Everybody was intrigued. We had a lot of kind smiles from bystanders or from other tourists looking at us.

16:22
Lizzie is a big fan of Harry Potter so we dressed up in Harry Potter’s gown. Beautiful photos for everybody to remember this by and for Atticus to see as he grows up too. Yeah. To create his life. And then some photos of other catch-ups. Was that us with Lizzie in the purple dress there, was that a baby shower of some sort? Yes, we had a baby shower and we told all our friends to come to our baby shower but we’re having this baby shower really for Lizzie.

16:52
our house was that full that day. It was more popular than our wedding. Oh, I didn’t even say that. Yes, we got married when Lizzie was four months pregnant. Yeah, so we had our wedding in the Hunters Valley and Lizzie and her sister and her family came to the ceremony and Lizzie and Michelle stayed for the reception as well, yes. Lovely. Yes, again, so the surrogate becomes entwined in your friends and family too. And it’s lovely to include her and her being pregnant with your child at your wedding. Yeah.

17:21
Yeah, yeah. And so you say that takes us to the time of birth and she was 10 days over that guest date. I mean we could talk about the day of birth for every team, you know, for hours I’m sure. But I guess give us a bit of a summary as to what it was like for two guys to be present at a birth. Yeah, I’ll just take a step back. You know how you asked me how was pregnancy? Well, we were actually worried about the pregnancy the whole time and think that birth is going to be so smooth sailing. It’s going to be like water slide because Lizzie had.

17:50
two kids already and they were both natural births so surely the third one just is going to be so easy. Well it turns out it was the other way around. Pregnancy wasn’t that much of a drama and the birth was dramatic shall we say. It was 12 hours of labor and with the emergency caesarean because Atticus’ head was just that big so he’s got other planned.

18:13
Sorry, the question was, what was it like being in the room? Yes, so like you Anna, we did the hypnobirthing course. My understanding of hypnobirthing was, I just thought it was all about water birth, but it was actually so much more than just water birth. And we learned a great deal from doing the course and to learn how to be a supported birth partner. I think that’s actually a badge of honor that I wear to be Lizzie’s birth.

18:41
partner for Attica’s birthday. You can see all those fairies right there. That was actually such as decoration. Him being a filmmaker, he production set the whole thing. And then it was said, I’ve never seen a birthing suite that beautiful before. Yes, it was just, it was a privilege, even though it was really, really hard. I mean, I wish we can suffer for Lizzie that day, but we can’t and all that we can do is just be there by her side all the way through.

19:11
have a caesarean, that would have been hard for Lizzie, I’d imagine, and for all of you. Did that happen quite quickly or can you talk us through? Absolutely, yes, yes. So with Lizzie, our attitude has always been, we are going to try every trick possible to enable a natural birth. And once we exhaust all the options, we will always go with an emergency caesarean for everyone’s safety.

19:37
And in this time we even tried the epidural, right? So Lizzie had a really bad epidural experience before where they gave her the epidural and it didn’t work. But this time around, I guess firstly, we had a really good anesthetist and the PN public hospital just has been amazing in supporting us. And this time around the epidural actually did work.

20:00
and still with epidural, we were not able to deliver at the case naturally. So at that point we knew that, okay, we really have tried everything, hands on how we have done everything we could. So cesarean is the outcome. Yes. And just in terms of support people, so I can see you and Sasha were there. Did she have anybody else? Cause she’s a single mom. Did she have a different person as well? Yes, absolutely. Amy is there. So you’re on the photo.

20:25
in the photo on the left. So yes, that’s Amy, Lizzie’s best friend. And Amy has been amazing that day. I couldn’t have done it without her that day. We were all just by 3am, we were just all so sleep deprived. We have to go upstairs, we have to move from the bursting suite upstairs to the caesarean operation theater. So Sasha and I went up and Amy did, Sasha and Amy had to do all the pack up. And it was just wonderful to have her help. Yeah. Yeah.

20:54
Were all of you allowed in the birthing suite then for the caesarean or wasn’t? No, for the theatre, no actually and it was to our surprise because we were always told that both Sasha and I would be allowed to go into the theatre. Came down to the last minute both Sasha and I were already dressed ready to go into the theatre. They said sorry we stuff up, actually only one person can go in, I’m really really sorry.

21:18
And then Sasha just said like, you go in, at least one of us needs to be there. And that was that, but the operation I would say happened very quickly. And so, um, I know sometimes some surrogates with particularly in COVID times, if they got told that they would just have their support person come in and then wait until afterwards when she’s recovered and see both IPs see their child at the same time, did say it was allowed in as well or not. So, uh, no, just me, just me. Yeah.

21:47
But eventually once the operation finished, they stitched up Lizzie, then we all went to the recovery room. That’s where Amy and Sasha also got to see Atticus for the first time. Yeah, so that’s us in the recovery room on the left. And then on the right, that’s when we move upstairs into the maternity ward. And so then you start to have your first cuddles with your little boy, hey? Yeah.

22:11
Gosh, that felt so long ago. Yeah, that was seven months ago. Yeah. Wow. What’s it like seeing here? You know, you’re Sasha the man you’ve married the man you love him being a dad to your little boy How does what do you feel when you see these photos? Heartful of joy and warmth. I suppose and he’s a great dad I don’t know. I always had a fear of bond ally not being able to bond with my child But he he’s just so bonded with both of us. I guess Sasha works from home. I’m taking 12 months off

22:40
taking 12 months parental leave so we both get to spend a lot of time with him and yeah he whenever he gets upset he can settle very quickly in her arms so that’s very nice. Beautiful and then life starts to go on doesn’t it and your little boy grows up and you start having all these dead moments. Yeah so on the right that’s him really started teething and such a joke about our son starting solids that’s what he looks like starting solids.

23:08
Yeah, on the left, yeah, that’s his, yeah, he’s a big boy really. Every day is a joy at the moment. Yeah. Well, it still has its challenges, of course. Yes. And then some photos of Lizzie, I’m holding him. So I guess people wonder, what does it look like post-birth? How often do you see each other now? Or what were these photos? Are these were a catch up at some point? Yeah. So, uh,

23:29
We see each other twice every week in the first trimester and then once Every week for two months at least once every four nights recently But I think this month we saw each other three three times already But yeah, we just try to see each other as much as possible

23:49
Yeah, when we went up to Central Coast, for example, we would try to squeeze in a visit to see if Lizzie was also by chance at her parents so we can make it work. Two weekends ago, and that’s the photo on the right. Yeah. And I’m guessing that photo there is that Lizzie’s mom holding him as well. Yeah. Yeah. So that’s Lizzie’s mom on the left, Jenny. And that’s Lizzie’s in the middle. That’s Lizzie’s two kids and two FUs.

24:13
So that was when Atticus was quite young. And then on the right, that was another, a different visit to her parents’ place where her sister was also there. Yeah, just one big family and we joined them for lunch. I think my mom was there that day as well. So my mom visited us from China for three weeks and I took my mom to visit Lizzie’s parents in Central Coast, yes. I’d imagine for people listening who are brand new, hearing that going, wow, the families are intertwining.

24:41
Have you felt welcomed in or has it been strange at all getting to know other families? My mum said she had to hold back tears the whole time. She said like, because Lizzie’s mum, she went through all this trouble to prepare tables. After the first round of food, I thought that was it. And then there was another round of dessert. Then there was a round of cheese. And it was just the hospitality was just amazing. And my mum said like, Lizzie, you’ve given so much for us and they are putting all this food.

25:11
And I said, well, that’s because they see us as family now. So this is normal for them. Yeah, this is just a weekend for them. Yeah. And I imagine for your mum, you know, from China, here she has a gay son and he’s now a dad. Yeah, yeah. This lady Lizzie and her family have helped make that happen. It’s pretty. Yeah, yeah.

25:29
Yeah, I think it certainly came as a shock to my mom’s side of the family or both sides of the family. But yeah, I think we changed a lot of hearts and minds with Atticus birth. Yeah. Good. Oh, you trailblazers. And then just to finish up here, we’ve got this photo. So what are we now? September, but in June this year, we met again at the growing families conference. And there is you speaking on a panel with other parents through surrogacy and getting to share your story again. Was that a nice two year circular moment for you? Oh, it was surreal. Yeah. I can’t

25:58
I couldn’t believe two years ago I was in the audience again I was so overwhelmed like this is me and you taught for you math like we’re both mathematicians like good students I make sure I attend every seminar

26:10
sitting in the room trying to stay away, taking notes. Whereas Sasha took the other approach, like he was in the common area, visiting every store, just talking to whoever was manning each store. And that’s how he spoke to Dr. Kuma and Steve Page. And just from those conversations, he found he assembled our team. Whereas in the meantime, I’m still trying to take all the notes. Yes. Yeah. If you’re a couple, you might have different approach or different ways of doing things. And that’s totally fine. Embrace it. Yeah.

26:40
Yes. I’d like to go back and talk about the egg donor that you used. You ultimately used an egg donor from America and in America, which might be a slightly unusual path for some teams there. I guess some might say if you felt called to an American IVF agency and because you had connected with one of those doctors at this conference, why then did you not pursue overseas surrogacy as a whole package? Mind you, I suppose by that point you had already been introduced to Lizzie.

27:07
Yeah, so for us, it’s just everything happens so quickly including the egg donor So I know a lot of a lot of teams I go to America like World Egg Bank I think that’s based in Arizona when they go to those agencies Looking for donors that you typically go through turn through database pages upon pages of donors And then you you do your filtering and then you eventually pick the right candidate but for us it was actually through Dr. Koo our doctor Dr. Kuma’s introduction and

27:37
When we met him, he said, actually, I so happened to have a donor who’s also a medical intern at my clinic

27:44
So she’s studying to become a doctor and she works for me at the moment and she’s donating because I helped her sister fell pregnant after years of infertility. And she is donating now because she’s studying to become a OBGYN and she wants to go understand what her patients will go through through egg retrieval. And also she wants to give back to the clinic and that’s why she’s donating. And I think you guys will be really lucky.

28:10
if you can have her as a donor. And just by with that story, we were already kind of sold, if that makes sense. And then when we get to see her profile, we did it and we were given access to the database because the Dr. Akuma’s clinic has their own clinically recruited donors, but we didn’t really need to go through the database because we knew that yeah, she is the donor that she, that we wanted to go through. Now at the end of the day, she is still an anonymous donor and most

28:38
donor program in the US will probably be considered as commercial by Australian standard. So you must navigate through those legal challenges with your lawyer first. So we spent a lot of time consulting with our lawyers page.

28:55
to make sure we are legally sound and legally covered before we can go down that path. And also actually there was a counseling aspect as well. So we need to do in our counseling with Katrina, we also need to cover bits of egg donation and especially the implication of what will happen if the donor is an anonymous donor. Yeah, I didn’t know that extra part of the story that that’s how the donor was.

29:16
So connected. So I suppose in some ways it wasn’t that you had necessarily ruled out Australian egg donation. It’s just that through the conversations at this conference and connecting with the doctor, that connection just sort of fell into place and your team got assembled, I guess. Yeah. Indeed. Yeah.

29:32
We’ve had one question typed in here by Brian that you and I can both answer. It says, is there a recommended amount of time to date your surrogate and decide? And how does that proposal happen when it’s right? How did it work for your team, Tim? Oh, it’s beautiful. So we met in June. So by the time Lizzie made the offer, that was end of October. So for us was five months when Lizzie made the offer. In October, we traveled to the US. So Sasha and I traveled to the US first.

30:02
sort of half work, half leisure trip. Before that trip, I told Lizzie, I was going to propose to Sasha. And a week later in a different catch up, Lizzie said, oh, by the way, after you propose to Sasha, the two of you can open this envelope. So, which meant that I have to take this envelope with us to the US. And I can’t tell Sasha I have an envelope from Lizzie that we need to travel with. And I have to trust Lizzie that there was nothing fishy in the envelope that can get us into trouble with the federal agents in the US. And that’s…

30:31
That is the amount of trust you need for your surrogates people. Um, so, uh, after I proposed to Sasha in LA, we opened a letter, uh, envelope and it was a beautiful car. When you open it, a tree emerges and it says the life of tree and it says, I choose you, would you, will you choose me? And that was the moment we knew that Lizzie made the offer. But of course, surrogating continues after your surrogate makes the offer, it doesn’t just stop there.

30:59
there’s still many, many questions and scenarios that you as a team need to go through. And of course, that’s what we said to Lizzie as well, just because you made the offer doesn’t bind you to us and we obviously need to continue.

31:12
our surrogating because obviously the embryo transfer didn’t happen until another seven months later, right? So it’s not like we just did nothing in these seven months. That’s a good point. And I think Tim summarized it really well there that most teams, the surrogate does sort of offer in some sort of way, either with a bit of a present or she’s often the one to say, okay, let’s go to the next steps, the counseling and legal. At SASS we recommend about that five to six months. That’s what my team did as well. And even if you already know people beforehand,

31:41
as friends and family, I’d still recommend that you do take that time. And I really like what Tim said there in terms of it doesn’t just end there because there’s still so many more questions that you need to talk about as a team. There are so many benefits, right? Number one is the amount of resources available. The SASS portal is amazing. It’s grouped by stage as well. So it’s just really logical. And you can see that, yeah, it’s done by someone who’s teaching for you in math.

32:07
Um, so, and, and the other thing is just having access to you Anna, throughout our journey, because sometimes unexpected things, and typically when unexpected things happen, they’re not necessarily good things. And you just need, you want someone’s to bounce off some ideas. So sometimes you just want someone to check it. Am I being reasonable or is this normal? And sometimes you don’t have instant access to the lawyer or to your counselor and having you there.

32:35
and you know so many other teams as well. So we can get great advice from you. And also just to hear about what any other teams had the same problem or experience as us so that you know, you’re not alone. Things will be okay, I suppose. Yeah. So we spent a lot of time during the embryo transfer stage and we did a lot of talking and exchange of text messages. And also the emergency

33:05
And we were completely new parents and so overwhelmed with a newborn. So, and so we had some challenges, serious challenges, I would say, in those six weeks. And again, with your help and Katrina’s help, we got through it. For me, that’s worth every penny that the membership costs.

33:24
Yeah, why about in time I will still have joined SAS? Yeah. Lovely to hear. Thank you. And yes, now that you recap some of those moments, I’ve remembered then as a team, I’ve in regular contact with Tim and Sasha and Lizzie as well. And there’s these moments in time. Sometimes it’s a text message. Sometimes it’s a phone call just to help you feel less alone. And you perhaps provide some guidance or some suggestions for the next step there. So it is that one-on-one sort of stuff. Sometimes you have questions or you have things that you want to raise with your surrogate.

33:54
but you don’t know whether it’s appropriate or not or how to raise it. That’s when Anna is just a massive help because you yourself is independent and you were a former surrogate. And it’s just great to have you there sometimes to help us just check. Yeah. Can I just get you to expand on that to what you feel comfortable? You said there were some significant difficulties and in those six weeks post-birth, and we know, you and I know, but is there any way to summarize them for people?

34:21
or in terms of if you could go back and do some things differently or what advice you would give to people then to help you make that differently? Yeah, when this is your first time experiencing birth or surrogacy, like we were so focused on embryo transfer pregnancy through to birth, we completely lost sight of the fourth trimester, especially our whole team assumed that the birth will be this smooth water slide that will last for less than three hours.

34:50
We didn’t think that we would end up with a caesarian birth where Lizzie can’t drive or lost mobility for six weeks. And we also didn’t plan well how we’re gonna like the visit schedule basically, especially within the first six weeks. Like Lizzie stay with us for the first two weeks and that’s really wonderful time that we spent together. But.

35:12
After that, we were just so overwhelmed with a newborn. And there were days where I was in tears, not knowing what to do with Atticus. And I think we reached a boiling point where Sasha had to go away for work for a week, where I was left alone with this.

35:28
Screaming crying newborn at home and we won’t be able to see Lizzie as frequently as say before birth And I think from Lizzie’s perspective She probably scared that hang on a minute what’s going on other boys like leaving me and for us is like, oh my god Can we really survive? Can our relationship survive this? Can we like as parents would really like the right thing for us?

35:52
But once we got through that six weeks, I guess, Attica settled into a routine, also with your help and Katrina’s help, we settled into a routine visit, like twice a week during the first trimester. And then once a week after that, and then you gradually move to once every four nights. And so long as there’s this regular routine of visits, then yeah, we were back on track. Yeah. I think so that’s a good summary there of some specific things that went wrong and just,

36:21
navigating those visits post-birth is something to really plan for. I think that’s what new people listening can take away from that. Yeah. Well, we’ll finish up with one last question here from Brian that says, how was it juggling work in everyday life and supporting your surrogate during pregnancy? Great question. How do we do it?

36:38
every weekend and weekends and public holidays that you get, you kind of no more time for yourself or for you and your partner but rather you really try to spend every weekend and every public holiday at least with your surrogate and her family but also when you’re not able to be there to support her you need to make sure there are substitutes so for us the good thing is we have Annabel who’s been a great help

37:06
there to provide that household support and childcare. And then there were days you might need to order Uber Eats just because your son is so sick, not able to take care of her kids, for example. I guess really it’s not easy, but that’s the sacrifices that you make in pursuing parenthood, I guess. Yeah, certainly no more 12 months of traveling through Europe and to explore Israel and Turkey.

37:30
that probably will happen for me in 18 years time when I think it’s time. Yes, indeed they are the sacrifices we make and I think you’ve summarized that well there that that is altruistic surrogacy in Australia. It’s a massive time investment, isn’t it? And then there’s also the financial investment, paying for some support and then the emotional support is the messages and the keeping in contact and growing the friendship and keeping that going. And then post-birth too. It’s the keeping in contact, sharing photos.

38:00
of Atticus and that so yeah yeah you’ve navigated it all very well Tim and Sasha good work team. I guess looking back there we still sometimes we sort of ask have we done the right thing do we do our best but yeah but I guess that’s the wonderful thing of having SASS is that to have you to bounce up ideas. Yeah excellent is there anything else then that you’ve thought of that you’d like to add? If anyone on this call have questions subsequently they can always send them to you I’m happy to answer them.

38:30
Thank you. Well, thank you for that offer of the extended friendship. If people do have specific questions about Tim’s journey, perhaps with going overseas for an American clinic and donor, I can put you in contact with him. Yeah. Thank you for sharing your time with me for this episode. If you’re finding these episodes helpful, please share them with friends. If you’d like to see the images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel for all of the recordings. If you’re looking for more individualized support,

38:56
consider joining SASS, Surrogacy Australia’s support service, so you can be connected with a mentor and also with me to help guide you on a journey. You might think of me as your Siri for surrogacy. Until next time, welcome to the village.