Episode 68 – Bonnie – surrogate

00:13
Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents. There are opportunities to ask questions and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

00:40
This episode, recorded in August 2024, features Bonnie. Bonnie, who lives near Harvey Bay, was a traditional surrogate for Andrew and Sam who live in Canberra. She birthed their daughter Paige in December 2020 and son Cole in February 2023. The births were total opposites, with Paige needing to be in the NICU for seven weeks, but Cole was a home birth. You can hear from one of the dads she carried for, Andrew, in previous episode 38. In this episode, we discuss

01:08
the involvement of Bonnie’s youngest child, Phoenix, in the surrogacy journey, the logistics of planning for home inseminations, and we shared a few laughs on this one, navigating a diagnosis during pregnancy of Hydrops fatalis, resulting in an emergency cesarean birth, and how a potentially fatal diagnosis like that strengthened their team, polarizing that with Cole’s pregnancy, where he went two weeks past his due date, and a home birth at the dad’s home.

01:33
Bonnie speaks so warmly and with such love, and I feel this team is a shining example of friends coming together to create a village to not only create their children, but that village to raise children together. I hope you enjoy this episode.

01:47
Bonnie, thank you for joining us tonight. You’ve done two surrogacy journeys here, a sibling journey for your friends. I guess take us back to the beginning. You knew one of the IPs from school. How did it come about that you eventually became their surrogate and in terms of offering to them? So way back when, back when we were teenagers, Sam and I were in high school and then college together. And then we worked out sexually. So we were quite close and had a long friendship ongoingly across the whole timeline. I was from a distance,

02:17
for probably 10, 12 years I think it went on and during that time I was actually I had begun and ended two relationships and when I was then single again I just reached out to Sam and I said hey I’m willing to be available and help you reach your dreams of being fathers. So it was that simple really it was just I think it was two conversations and we were confirmed in our wedding. Wow when you say their path to parenthood before had they been pursuing surrogacy with

02:47
the fostering path or overseas surrogacy? I think they touched on fostering very quickly and then it didn’t sit well with them. And then they both followed two different paths from my understanding. They were dating one woman who was prepared to carry, but then that fell through for, I think, her personal reasons. And then Sam’s sister was offering, and then medically was found to be not a pathway could walk down the street. Yeah, it was really hard.

03:14
witness there. Yes, thank you for rollercoaster. Definitely a rollercoaster, yes. Thank you for prompting my memory. I think I now remember our new parts of that and that’s probably good little opportunity to plug that one of the dads that you carried for, Andrew, Andy, he came on the webinar I think at the start of this year so he’s episode 38 on the podcast series so if you want to follow that up and pair these episodes that’s a great one to have a listen to there. And so then you started the conversations about right let’s do this and therefore…

03:39
what’s involved. I’m not sure how much we will go into the technicalities of how your team navigated it, because at the time, them in Canberra, and you being their traditional surrogate, there was, the laws were not in place to support your team, if we’re being honest, but you navigated your way around it, and the laws have been changed now, and that’s why we feel free to talk about it. But just in terms of it a little bit, had the offer always been for you to be their traditional surrogate, as opposed to them having found an egg donor and made embryos? Is that the offer that you were putting on the table?

04:09
Well, I had, as Sam actually knew throughout my timeline, before being in a second relationship, I had been an egg donor as well. And so that was part of the conversation originally. And then we very quickly came away from that. Right, yes. Okay. Let’s just simplify it. Let’s do it all in the one package. And so yes, that adds the extra complexity of you being the biological mother and the birth mother.

04:31
as well. Was that something that you had to do some extra counselling for or address to be at peace with that or was it something that felt really natural to you? Yeah, no it wasn’t a second thought for me and I don’t think there was any hesitation from them either. I had already kind of gone through the process by being witness and still staying quite connected to previous child donating my eggs too so it was kind of like a training wheels I guess you could say for that next journey that we went through. Very natural for me to happily see you know an opportunity.

05:01
to give life however that looked. It was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then I we perhaps might launch back into your photos then and then they sort of take us through sequentially roughly what happened. Okay so is there anything you want to tell us Bonnie about the journey and the lead up to those initial chats or

05:17
getting to the point of aiming for pregnancy? It seems like a lifetime, literally, actually two ago, but realistically, because I had been based in Canberra through my schooling and for a little bit of my teenage years, I was quite regularly in Canberra. So logistically, it sounds on paper as a nightmare, but realistically, it was quite easy and comfortable to navigate. We were very optimistic. We were very, I guess the boys spent a lot of time going in, diving deep into technical

05:47
scientific, you know, to better our chances. I really got myself aligned with my cycle, which probably to be honest was the first time that I’d really honed in on like honoring my wellbeing and my health on a really broad scale. I think being in the giving space and being so intentional, I definitely upped the ante when it came to my health and wellbeing and yeah, within three months, we had, as you can see with the photos, a bun in the oven.

06:15
Bunin the oven, yes. So it did for the first pregnancy for Paige, it did take three attempts. So did that mean you having to travel to them around that time of ovulation in your cycle to do home insemination attempts? That was what was happening. I’m quite familiar with living, driving back and forth. So I’ll be kind of factoring kind of at that.

06:36
most, it was about a five day period that I would be there and be present and we were very, what should we say, consistently giving ourselves every opportunity. The boys were very, well at that instance it was Andy, he was the biological father for the first pregnancy with Paige. He was very capable, to put it that way, he was very capable and we had a lot of opportunity to make sure that we were going to succeed.

07:04
See those of us that have been on these journeys, and I think I’m pretty sure I know what you’re referring to, people who are brand new might not, but that’s okay. We’re just gonna leave that for them to work out if they can or not. Somebody’s laughing in the chat so they get it. Wonderful, so they would.

07:18
had their routines of trying to make sure this happened. So it would have been hard, you know, each time around going, oh, it didn’t work and you’re waiting for your period to arrive or not, but then eventually it worked, right? Yeah, it was. And to be honest, actually I carried a little bit of pressure and I remember the phone conversations that we had, you know, down the line when I obviously did my cycle, did begin and I felt, I think the boys were so accepting and so, you know, very, very aware and very conscious of not layering me with pressure. And so I was, I think the one

07:48
was really struggling the most in the disappointment to be honest. So come that third month we were celebrating. It was wonderful. Am I right to assume you feel pregnant fairly easily with your own children, the keeper children that you’ve had? Yes.

08:00
Yes, yes. So waiting for three months would have been a bit unheard of for you. Yeah very foreign, very foreign indeed. So we’ve got some beautiful photos that we’ll work through here of different milestones in your team here so just some general catch-ups that happen and then is this your son Phoenix playing in their new cot? Yes this so the brunch was celebrating that was actually at I think from memory Sam’s sister’s cafe she was managing at the time so it was a bit of an announcement it was a big event. The nursery for Paige was a long time coming in creation I think it was a

08:30
that the boys had had for lunch.

08:31
time and it was a big thing for them to finally have a space and like to bring it to life. I think for that part being me being so far away and not physically seeing you know my belly growing as often as I’m sure they would have hoped. That was a space that I think they found a lot of comfort in and as I don’t know if you can see but they actually had an artist come in and paint on the walls different animals and different parts of the mural to reflect both myself, my girls, Phoenix and he’s actually underneath the Phoenix in the cloud there. But they put a lot of thought into it.

09:01
It was just a really beautiful, confirming kind of experience for me to witness, for the boys and then to see my son and for them to get familiar with what it’s going to be like to.

09:11
a child jumping around in a cot. Yes, oh there’s so many things I could comment on there. Yes, seeing the reality of having a child bouncing around the room, a way for them to bond with their unborn child by getting the nursery ready helps them nest. By including you guys in the mural, yes I can see the phoenix up there in the cloud representing your son and as you’re saying in the rest of the paintings in that room, what a beautiful way to tell the story so that when the child grows up in that room that they can talk about that.

09:41
thing is a surrogate that even though they’ve reassured you yes yes yes we’re gonna be friends for life I guess when they do something like that

09:47
probably deepens that trust, does it? It really does, yeah. And it’s actually been a very strong focal point for Paige. As Paige grew up and then I was pregnant in that house for the birth of Cole, the conversation that flowed on from that room and those little personal touches of love, it’s, yeah, it rippled for a long time and it’s still to this day quite strong, it’s beautiful. That’s beautiful. And then so during that first pregnancy being interstate, how often did you see each other during the pregnancy? At the beginning we were pretty lucky. I was really tied down professionally.

10:17
about, they witnessed probably the rounding quite consistently and then there was a pretty big gap and then I remember the next time they saw me their eyes fell out of their head and they’re like oh wow it’s quite close and I was like yeah this is pregnant babe. So it was probably for Paige, I would say half a dozen to eight times that we had good solid time together. Yep, and so then I think some of the photos take us through you being pregnant with Paige and your beautiful growing belly. Wow yes.

10:44
Does a particular thought come back to you when you see those photos? Yeah, well it was actually, I’ll touch on it just quickly. The photo on the right was me preparing to have a procedure done after they had been diagnosed with high drops. So yeah, I was highly optimistic, but also I was actually quite fearful as well. That’s right, I had forgotten that. Andrew mentioned that in his episode. Yeah, so you got this, well, this very horrific or potentially scary diagnosis during the pregnancy of what…

11:13
the life span could be like for this unborn child. Is that what it was? Yeah, we were actually, I remember a woman, someone had given me a statistic where she was now sitting in the percentile of a 2% survival chance and that shook me, yeah. And so you look back at that photo and you can see that sort of fear. Yeah, I can see it and I can feel it to be honest. Yeah, it’s still there. And so it wasn’t until she was born, is that correct, that anybody knew?

11:39
what her severity of it was gonna be? We were prepared for her not to be born. She was, we were prepared to be not sleeping with the baby, but I was quite reassured when I heard her very strong cry when she, after the immediate C-section and she was in the theater. I actually had a really strong download and I had a big wave of comfort. Obviously the next six weeks were a rollercoaster for the boys, but I had actually sunk into that feeling in that moment and that gave me a lot of relief.

12:07
peace I guess through that next part of the journey. Yes for those that don’t know what is hydrox? The technical term I couldn’t tell you that was probably something Andrew I would have assumed went deep into. Fluid here so it was a baby of water she had fluid on her lungs and her mouth and her brain and so they had attempted to do while she was in utero to withdraw that it was actually it kept rift in things. Yes that was decision 30 weeks. And so then that was a planned caesarean which I’m guessing you had not had with any of your previous births? No

12:37
being a surrogate.

12:38
partly do it, well some of us do it because of the way we’ve birthed in the past and we’d like to do that again but we certainly don’t sign up for having a sick baby or potentially one that’s not going to survive. That would have just, did that change your whole mindset of and were you challenged by that and doing what am I doing, what’s this all about? No I was never questioning it. I was, it tested me, I’m not going to lie. I was definitely pushed to the edge of my strength and my faith and you know the divine reasoning behind everything that happens. I also kind of removed myself and

13:08
a bit of perspective to see that I had always followed my very core belief in what my intention was and that that never wavered. So no matter what the outcome, all three of us were very united with what our intention and if the outcome wasn’t obviously what we had dreamed of, we were all very secure with that piece of what we were doing and why we were doing it. Yes well and then she’s grown up to be a lovely little girl and has a brother too but we’ll get there so then yes the face of going into the C section.

13:37
that morning and then pictures up. Any thoughts as you look back at these photos? Yeah well the photo with the two boys, they were kind of making jokes and they were being quite comical and I remember the staff in the theatre especially, you know the doctors and all the other official people that were there obviously very aware of the reality were looking at us and I remember like feeling their judgment going like are these guys okay, do they realise how serious this situation is and I think even in the photo with the three of us just before we’re going into the theatre, I can see the smiles of like we were trying to lift

14:07
our faith and stay in the light and laughter was actually a really big kind of anchoring soothing you know approach to what we knew in our bones was terrifying but it really did serve a huge purpose for all three of us we were constantly cracking jokes and we were constantly like pushing limits and changing the subject and you know like saying something comical about their footwear or something silly and it just lightened it for everyone and i think ultimately they were appreciative of it because i don’t think many people would have experienced that in that sort

14:37
good advice to teens here, humour is a great element.

14:40
or a team I reckon. And then the little girl was born and although she was in the intensive care unit for quite a few weeks, people started to have their cuddles with her. Is that right? Yeah, and that was a beautiful time. Challenging for the staff, I remember the boys actually struggled to, I think because it was so new in the protocols of the hospital and the birth mother and the next two fathers who were now legal, not yet legal, but legally going to be responsible, they actually had to overcome a fair few hurdles. And it was a few instances

15:10
my experience in the birthing world in both hospital and medical kind of settings to kind of leverage the power play that was going on and I think the boys really appreciated that because I think them having to carry the whole load of that if I wasn’t there in the background or at sometimes in the foreground it would have just compounded and made it quite quite unpleasant for them through that time. So yeah a couple of instances come to mind where the boys are like man like we really are going against the grain aren’t we you know. I was really proud of us as

15:40
and I was proud of the experience that offered a lot of people’s growth, I guess I should say, and a lot of people’s acceptance and you know just the ultimate factor of the fact that love is what we’re all about and what we’re here for and that ultimately what we’re trying to make the focus and the whole thing. So yeah it was a pretty full experience. What a team and that you could be advocates for each other, that you could step up and through your experience and as the birthing mother say no these are the dads, default to them, include them in the decisions, the conversation,

16:10
So, and then life starts to go on and your own little son, you know, holds their child. That’s always a pretty special feeling, isn’t it? Yeah, because he was so present. My teenage daughters at the time were quite preoccupied with their horses and their lifestyle. And in fact, my oldest was quite protective. And so she kind of created a barrier. She didn’t really want to be so involved. She I think was a bit worried for my aunt. She was fearful for my pain, I guess, or grief that I might or might not have experienced. Phoenix, however, I was right there. He was ear to my belly. He was very present in all the, you know, the situations.

16:40
tests and conversations and so yeah we empowered him to be quite involved and him and Paige still to this day have a very strong beautiful bond it’s really lovely. Yeah and it’s lovely as we watch that happen over time and so then get to see your friends being dads and introducing their child to what one of their mums in this photo here? My mother.

16:59
Yeah, that was my moment. She was really supportive through the journey for myself, but I think the boys gained a lot of wisdom as well from what she was offering through things that I might have just skimmed over. Like mum had a lot of little seeds of wisdom that I know landed a bit later on down the track. And yeah, the boys just taking it in their stride. It was so natural for them. It was so beautiful.

17:19
I’m just going to do a side comment there to answer the question in chat. How does home insemination occur? It’s basically where I’ll just say it, if you like, that where they’re often in the same home, the woman has tracked her cycle. So she knows when she’s ovulating. So just like there are sticks that you can pee on to predict if you’re pregnant or not. There are ovulation predictor kits that you can do, or women know of other ways to track their cycle as well.

17:42
And then the man in a bathroom or in his bedroom makes his deposit, if you like, his sperm contribution into a cup of some point. It’s not usually done with a turkey baster. It’s probably done with either a small syringe or then using what’s called a soft cup that the woman then puts the sperm in there and she inserts that into herself.

18:00
And then the sperm has a way, just like it would in natural intercourse, of finding its way up the cervix to the right spot. How’s that for a quick summary, Bonnie? Spot on, pretty good, I love it. I will make mention though, there is an art now that we’ve obviously with the second journey with the second baby poll, as we tweaked on and we made these little adjustments, I can vouch for the fact that they do make a very big impact, I guess. There was all these little things that we wove into the picture that gave us 100% success on the first month of the second baby. Yeah, indeed.

18:30
Yeah, the subtleties of that game to play. Oh, I’m just gonna clarify for the person asking, traditional surrogacy is never the surrogate having to have intercourse with one of the intended fathers. Ever. No. Ever. That was never with anyone. No, and it’s not allowed. So just in case anyone’s wondering. Will you add one more thing? That’s fair. I was just gonna say, if anyone’s got any real, if any surrogate, like potential surrogates have any real, needy questions, I’m open to answering any. Thank you. There’s also a podcast that Katrina Hale, that psychologist has done,

19:00
specifically on somebody else’s podcast series so they could always sort of Google those words and they would come up. So then life starts to go on, Paige is growing up and you start to plan a sibling journey here and this is some beautiful photos of your son Phoenix and Paige and you can see that bond that they’ve got there. What language do they use? Like my kids sort of think of Baker as a tummy cousin so to speak and I can certainly see the bond.

19:24
my son has with Baker. It’s almost as though I can see him being a big brother because he’s never had a younger sibling. But these children are genetically related. Is it more like a brother-sister bond then, or in your son’s mind, how does he explain it? Well, to Paige, he’s known as her brother, and I’m known as her mother, and my other eldest daughters, she knows them as her sisters. They also, the boys also have other children that they’ve donated their sperm to, so that she’s also got other siblings on the other side as well.

19:54
I actually heard a comment a few months back from Phoenix saying, mama, you’re going to have any other, am I going to have any brothers or sisters that we get to keep? So, well, actually that, you know, you know, we are related and that’s, that’s definite and ongoing, but he understands the concept that it was a gift. Babies were gifts for them. So follow that when it unfolds later, if there’s any more questions.

20:16
And then I think your team is very passionate about being this sort of modern family. This photo here of everybody having a big hug and a cuddle and a kiss on the couch. That might be quite unique to some traditional surrogacy teams that you being called the mother could be quite, oh, I’m not sure if scary is the right word, but for many other teams that could be intimidating. But I suppose does Paige and brother Cole, will they just grow up going, I’ve got two dads and a mum. Like it’s not unusual to have a village. Is that how you guys sort of see it? Yeah, that seems to be the way we’re going forward so far.

20:45
And I think we’re all really anchored into the child, like each child’s age is very confident and very strong and we all have a lot of comfort knowing that if she wants her mum on the phone or if she wants to visit with her sisters that she’s going to be able to speak into. So we’re all kind of anchored into the kids needs basically and that’s what’s leading the way. That’s great, keeping the kids at the forefront of what we do hey, that’s what surrogacy, well and parenting, should all be about.

21:11
And so we move on with the second pregnancy. So at some point in time, you either offer it again or as a team you had maybe talked about doing a sibling journey and.

21:18
on with that you went? Yeah, well, I think it was even a cheeky comment from could have been someone in the room, but I definitely latched onto it as how of a force Paige was as an early child and how she was the queen of the castle. So yeah, I think that planted the seed and then it was a very quick transition from that to go, all right, if we’re gonna do it, let’s do it now. I had no real definition of what my pathway was going. People say, what’s your five year plan? And I’m like, man, I’m rolling with the flow, babe. I just go with it.

21:48
was a desire I was like right now never let’s not you know try and plan this and be sensible about it let’s just jump in and paddle. It’s worked beautifully and divinely it was so yeah we’ve been very blessed and I don’t take it for granted at all how the timeline has played out for us it’s been beautiful. What were the two pregnancies like for you did they get harder each time as you got older in comparison to your own keeper children? No not at all. Cole especially was

22:15
I was very, the girls had anchored themselves permanently with their father of the property and so they were finally living a bit of a more father dominant lifestyle and I had actually started Phoenix in school and he was four and three days into his first term he was not happy so I jumped in a camper van and started travelling and I know that tested Andy, I think Sam was okay with it, he knew I was always going to be responsible with around the child’s need but yeah it was definitely not a traditional pregnancy as a lot of people would have viewed it.

22:44
I was very active and on the move. And I remember being quite conscious of like me needing to stop to actually birth. Like that was a big deal. And going two weeks over, it would be challenged all over. Challenged all over. Yes, let’s see.

22:58
Briefly, let’s talk about that, because I know Andy talked about that in his episode. So you ended up with a home birth, down with them in camera, two weeks over date. Now this was after you had a caesarian, so it’s not just having a natural birth, it’s having a natural home birth. Yeah, how did that play out for your whole team? A lot of trust together there, for them trusting you and your body? Yeah, it was. And thankfully, my past journeys with my own children, one being quite a lot.

23:21
baby and I was remotely to birthing her and yes there were some you know tricky situations that flowed on from that which triggered a bit of a challenging situation for myself in a way of the clinical approach that the midwives and the doctors were presenting to the boys. I was also anemic which made them a little bit more heightened in the sense of you know risk I guess and just that.

23:43
trauma of what was with age, I think kind of was just under the surface of it. I had heard all these, you know, worst case scenarios and that I don’t sit in those spaces. I stay, I mean, I’m a realist, I’m not an idiot. I know I’m aware of what’s real and what the potentials can be, but I also don’t give much space or power to it. I stay quiet and kidding my body and my faith. And yeah, and I was a lot of the time, you know, consistently reaffirming and I know the midwives were very supportive and, you know, being that

24:11
when the boys had those moments of doubt, you know, reaffirming me and reassuring them that, you know, ultimately she’s got a great hand. I had a great handle on, you know, my capacity to birth and I had a very, I’m quite in tune with my body. I was very open to all the things that they were telling me to my iron and I know Andy will boast about it now, but he was cheeky and he was slipping things into up my iron along the way and like, I mean, we do, we surrender and we trust and we know that the ultimate, the ultimate goal and the dream we all held collectively. So I

24:41
I think when you have that kind of understanding and that kind of relationship, before any of these kind of tricky scenarios come in, ultimately we’re pretty united when it comes to what we do and how we go thankfully. Credit to your team. I’m gonna come back and unpack that anemic low iron in a minute, cause that was…

25:00
The follow up from my community after that was interesting. And so I’ve always wanted to hear your side to it. So just going to finish off with some of these beautiful photos here. So having the home birth of Cole and then you get to see your friends, two dads with two kids and you.

25:15
with Cole post-birth did you do some of the direct feeding there or supply some milk or anything like that? Yeah I did actually I’ll make mention because Phoenix deserves the credit Phoenix actually stood there and took that first photograph so I just really wanted to pay tribute to that because yes everyone else by that I mean the two midwives and Sam and Andy were obviously a very hot in state we weren’t really aware of what had happened but Phoenix was so present and anchored and did what needed and we have that beautiful photo so thanks Phoenix so yeah I

25:45
honest. I think we slowly, quite intensively for the first four or five days, it was exclusively breastfed. That was a bit of a trick, but that was definitely, we were all very sensitive in that.

25:56
and we were all very consciously trying to navigate not just our emotions but this new world right with another baby in the home for everyone. So then we would integrate the bottle feeds and that kind of, it resulted into quite a gentle transition for Cole. It actually wasn’t anything really like definitive I think is the word I want to use because I had quite a maternal pull to make sure that there was going to be as less distress obviously as possible.

26:26
from the new thing being a bottle. I was like, okay, let’s just approach it a bit gently. And the boys came to the party on that. And so it was, we gave it all the time that we all knew was possible. And we took ourselves out of a pressured situation and just, yeah, surrendered to what his needs were. And it actually ended up being a really beautiful time for all of us and powerful, powerful, but also, yeah. I think as Harmonia says, anyone could dream up to be honest. Just a credit to your team. There’s so many subtleties that I’m picking up

26:56
and being in this community for so long, the subtleties of those conversations that I could imagine going on, the navigating the needs of everybody and the needs of the child and the…

27:05
children that are also there. It sounds like you guys are regularly having these sorts of conversations. You’re very aware of each other, you’re very respectful of each other but accommodating. It’s really lovely to hear and it’s really refreshing to to see it done so well. So great work team and look at this beautiful modern family that you’ve created hey. Thank you. It is. I’m going to work now. You’re allowed to. Tell me what you’re feeling and thinking when you see these things. Just gratitude I guess like for the love that’s very very present with all of us and I think

27:35
you know, solidify in all the journey, all the ups and downs of it all but also like what the outlook for those children is and for ourselves and how we’ve grown as individuals. I think it’s just been a step. I’m just really honoured and grateful. Yeah. Isn’t that beautiful when surrogacy is done well, the surrogate comes away feeling like she’s the one being given the gift. Oh honey, right to this day, like some of those letting go lessons I will carry with me forever. Yeah. Oh yes, there’s so many lessons we can learn in here, absolutely.

28:01
I just want to go back to something that we talked about there in saying that you were low in iron and that you’re saying that Andy Andrew sneaked some things in and are you also a vegetarian or a vegan? Is that right? Yes I’m not in my previous relationships. I’m on a farm. So I have eaten meat in my lifetime I just as I grow older and I get more in tune

28:20
It just doesn’t sit with me. I eat fish. Yeah. And so it’s not like a, I mean, it is realistically in the animal industry. I just know I have to, I’m not going to make comment on it. I’m open to, you know, when it comes to the wellbeing, especially of a child and then someone else’s, of course I’m always going to do above and beyond what’s needed, you know, so. So what was the agreement that you had that he, how did you get extra iron into you then?

28:44
There was no agreement. Beautiful Andy was bringing me green smoothies in the morning. Yes. As well as taking Phoenix out for play dates. So it was lovely and it was the most relaxed period. The pregnancy that I’d had. Yeah, they were putting bone broth in the smoothie. Bone broth, there we go. Yep. And so you found that out after and-

29:00
How did you feel? Well, I was because I had had a fusion and then I was having all these other things like not tablet form, but I was actually, we were quite like very focused on trying to up the iron because it was a real risk that I was in for hemorrhaging and having that as a very strong condition. Yeah, it was.

29:19
Just another thing that we could do to up the chances of a smooth and harmonious experience. So I don’t have any thoughts. I just find it funny. I just find it funny that typically I’m pretty good at identifying what’s going on in my mouth and what the flavors are. And I had no idea. Yeah. So you didn’t hemorrhage. That’s good. It’s probably scary as IPs when they’ve been told some things medically about what’s going on, but then that trust in the surrogate, it could be a fine balance to take, I’d imagine, for IPs. Yeah, it was. And to be honest, it was actually my second daughter that put a bit of the fear.

29:49
fear in them. We were actually denied a home birth on the grounds because my second daughter who was born 11 pounds out in the bush, we actually, I ended up in ICU and I had like I think seven minutes of blood back into me. So I’d had a pretty full serious situation that I mean, Phoenix, my son afterwards was a dream birth. And obviously I know and confirmed to myself that it wasn’t getting, I knew it wasn’t an issue. I could obviously do it

30:14
Did you have to therefore buffer some of their anxiety about it? Did they talk it through with you or did they seek extra counseling or? Yeah, it was really strong actually. I actually, I remember having a conversation with one of my friends at the time, feeling quite just worn down by a lot of the dialogue and the language and the conversations that I had.

30:32
was consistently in because fear and I guess in the medical system, you know, they like to stay on the safe statistics and I’m a little bit opposite to that. Like, I mean, not opposite, obviously I don’t take risks, but I’ve got a very strong sense of my chastity to burden care and I step very forward and I get in that, but it was a key, it was constantly challenged. You know, I was constantly asked right down to, you know, family and friends of mine on my side where, you know, they’re like, what are you actually doing? Like, why are you doing this?

31:02
Why do I have to justify myself? Yeah, wow. That trusting your body. Yeah, I mean you’ve got through it now, but at the time it would have been intense, buffering their fear and you believing in yourself and well done team for navigating that. There would have been some tense moments there I’d imagine. Yeah, it was. I’m sure they had a lot more on their own that they kind of protected me from because I know I…

31:23
I was experiencing a lot of it separately as well. Like I was going acupuncture massages a lot and walking and trying to carry that on my own a little bit to kind of protect them from it. But yeah, even as a united team, we were batting the balls away left, right and center. Yeah, the opinions and judgment of people outside your own team to what they think should happen. Yes, and that you would be in risky and not, the baby’s not safe.

31:46
Yeah, and all based on valid experiences of their own, but yeah, I guess it’s a good lesson to women and men and anyone who’s going through a journey.

31:54
becoming parents is just, I guess, believing in the intuition and having that, I guess, acceptance, the power in accepting what could be anyway and still loving a child through that circumstances, you know, like if it’s a really hard lesson of letting go, you know, I think we were just, we surrendered completely to the journey. So yes, well done team. Are there any other particular moments that you’d like to share to wrap it up, teachable moments that you’re proud of or were hard?

32:24
the connection that we all have and I think how it didn’t waver through those testing times. The teachable moments, the moments that I was in myself challenged by my maternal instinct and my maternal pull to be present or be available or have my opinion heard or have my direction honored. I think the mentality and I think basically just honoring our core intention of

32:51
it does take a village and I think in those actual moments when we can let go a little bit and just release our own kind of story that we have sometimes in our ego and in our own fear maybe or our own judgment I think surrendering and letting go just gives space to a lot more love and connection to kind of come to life.

33:10
And I think those were the really poor moments for all of us individually, but also as a collective. So I think if you’re having those unsteady moments, just give yourself a moment to breathe and just sit in it, but also let go of…

33:23
the mind stuff and just being your sense of self and your heart and your body and you should be able to step solidly from there I think. Perfect. I was going to add the extra any other advice for people at the beginning but I think that’s basically what you’ve just done there is pass on that wisdom and yeah great reassurance to listen to yourselves individually as a team.

33:43
It’s okay to sit in uncomfortable conversations and yeah, flow through it. Wonderful. Oh, we’re so proud of you. Two beautiful babies, extra babies in the world here in a modern family and village that you’ve created. Great work. It’s such an honor to have had you on and to share that story for people to, you know, pair up to hear two sides of it and helps. And a hope brings, you know, hope to people listening as surrogates and IPs at this too could be a reality in Australia. It can be done. And particularly for your team too, overcoming some of the legal challenges too.

34:13
and I’ll see you next time.

34:13
Trendsetters there. Yeah, it was lovely. I just want to say a super big thank you to the work that you’re doing. I think it’s a wonderful platform in this service. I’m really, really glad that you guys have developed this and created this space and ongoingly providing this sort of feedback and information for anyone involved or interested in the whole thing. So well done. Thank you very much. To me, it’s an honor to be able to, we help people at the beginning by listening to other stories. And then when you come out the other end, I guess I’m all about storytelling. And if people have a story

34:43
want to share it, it’s such an honour to have created a platform for it to happen. So yeah, it helps people at the beginning and at different stages. And we keep learning from each other too. And hopefully, you know, fast forward into the future, these children born from surrogacy can go back and listen to this story. And even the children of the surrogates can go back and listen. Yeah, and it’s captured in time. So thank you for that feedback. That’s lovely. The ultimate thing is sharing is caring. I think it sums it all up really, doesn’t it? That’s lovely. Thank you.

35:12
Thank you for joining me. If you’d like to see the photos shared in this webinar presentation, head over to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy. Also check out our Zoom monthly catch-up sessions, which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child.

35:41
And in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child, so welcome to the village.