Episode 143 – Rachel – surrogate

00:14
Welcome back, or if this is your first time, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series with me, your host Anna McKie. My guest on this episode was a co-host on the regular webinar series that I run. Those one-hour webinars are free and will take you through the surrogacy process in Australia. You will hear from a surrogate or parent and there are opportunities to type in your questions and we will try to answer them. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org.

00:44
This episode featuring surrogate Rachel is one from the archives and was recorded in April 2023. birthed as a surrogate in Cairns in December 2019. She carried for her husband, sister and brother-in-law who lived in Canberra at the time and they had a little girl, Hannah. Rachel has been an active member of the surrogacy community and you can hear from the mum she carried for, Deb, in the next episode. In this episode we talked through what a journey looks like for an interstate team

01:13
and also how they keep in contact post-birth with distance between them. Both the children of surrogates and the children born from surrogacy create language to describe their story and it’s always interesting to hear variations I think as you’ll hear from Rach. Hannah’s birth was longer than Rachel’s other births and helps us remember that each pregnancy and birth can be different. She also talks about the choice to stop her milk coming in post-birth and why.

01:40
navigating surrogacy in a remote area, having limited choices, and private health cover and how that works. I hope you enjoy this episode. We’ve got Rachel joining us now, and we’re going to work our way through the beautiful photos that she shared with us and hear about her journey. So talk us through these photos, Rachel, what’s happening here and who’s in them.

01:58
Okay, so obviously there’s two photos of me that when I was pregnant. Now with my own pregnancies, I didn’t actually take photos of my belly at all, which is really interesting. But I felt in this journey that it was important to give those updates because it was over distance. So I was in fine North Queensland and they were in Canberra. So they don’t see me on a day to day. Yeah. It was interesting because it’s, I was definitely taking more photos than I would have previously. This is my beautiful sister-in-law. This is in the gardens just prior to Hannah being born. And we were trying to get some photos for that time, not knowing what was going to

02:28
So beautiful nearly full term there in that middle photo. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, there were some other maternity photos that we’d organized But we weren’t sure if they were gonna work in time So we got some plan B photos and that was just a friend of mine that took that photo those photos in the gardens So yeah, beautiful lovely to have some mementos there then this is your family in your household. Yeah, my family Yes, that’s my husband my daughter and my son and my two sons So yeah, Haley’s now in grade eight and my son is grade six and then my little one’s now in grade one Yeah, that’s obviously

02:58
they were much smaller. So yes and then this is your son when he was little and your pregnant belly. Yeah so it’s a very informal photo but he would always uh sing to my belly and he was singing and talk and the baby would always keep just for him all the time. So even if other people spoke to the baby if William my son spoke to the baby it usually kicked more. So yeah so he had a very genuine connection so you can see it’s not a perfect photo there but that was a position that he usually would take talking to the baby and he was two and a half at the time so it’s about it like if you were having an always older

03:28
sibling if that made sense if you had a kids two years apart it’s a very similar kind of feel about it. yeah my kids were four and six and I remember them kissing my tummy good night and things like that so did you have language in your house like because you are they are cousins though aren’t they? Yeah yeah they are cousins yeah so

03:44
My son would call himself um a brother cousin. So we had to explain to the daycare that not to correct him because he is a brother cousin and that’s just the word he used. So we’ve just used that language that he brought up. That’s good to work around the language. Yes. I think we had tummy cousin for us that shared the same.

04:01
tummy but not related there but yeah family can be made in lots of different ways can’t it? And then a beautiful photo here with so many hands on your belly there. Yeah so this is my RP’s family obviously I’m just sharing photos from my experience. These are the official maternity ones that we’ve

04:17
weren’t sure if we were going to get what we did and it was great. And that was just one of the creeks. What I do love is that little bell that surrounds my neck there. It’s actually just a little soft bell, but when Hannah was born, I gave that necklace to my IP. It was kind of nice and mento, so a similar sound. It’s actually, it was a lovely, lovely little gift. So it’s very soothing. I think we have one too. for those listening who have not seen that before, it has a little bell sound. And so the idea is that baby’s getting used to that. And then when, you know, baby’s born and the

04:47
might not have been obviously around them every day to hear their voices, but the bell might be a familiar sound. And so it’s a nice token gift there, isn’t it, to pass it back to the parents. Yeah, absolutely. And then I think we get to birthday. So talk us through the birth. Traditionally, my labours are very short. So we were worried that we weren’t going to get to the hospital, but no, Hannah needed to make an announcement. She was a 10-hour labour.

05:12
much longer than my other ones. Wow. So my third baby was only an hour labor, she was 10 hours. So I thought I just don’t think you can assume how long things are going to be because yeah it felt like forever for me. I felt like I was going over time because my babies were quick. You’re like getting employed in some ways. Yeah yeah and there were some complications in there too like she’s just in the wrong position and the cord was wrapped around her neck a few times and so there was a few things happening to lengthen that labor and so yeah so you can see that photo. We didn’t have a birth photographer um I wasn’t super

05:42
comfortable with it but everyone’s different. But that was my husband taking that photo, that’s why he’s not in there. And you can see that’s directly after they’ve just put her on my chest. So that’s kind of very fresh. Yes, exactly right. And the other photo is from a couple of days later when she’s become more of, you know, not very new anyway. Yeah, so that was in the hospital and that photo was actually featured and you mentioned it earlier. That particular week there was four or five surrogates, so maybe four. In that one week there were four surrogates at birth that week. So it was featured in…

06:10
So it was a pretty amazing week actually. even I still feel connected to some of those ladies now. So we kind of did it together. If that makes sense. Yes, I remember featuring that in social media. Was Angela too, one of the ones that I shared that photo of earlier that was there. A pretty amazing thing. And as you say that often the women that are pregnant around the same time as you, they’re the ones that you bond with because you’re going through that experience at the same time. So yeah, it’s a unique thing. Just a question on the hospital there, which I’m sure people listening might wonder.

06:40
So how does that work? did you have separate rooms in the hospital and were you all in the hospital together for a few days? We had to go with private. We didn’t really have a choice in our situation. That’s a whole different chat about that. Deb and I stayed together. So we are in the same room. She might talk about it. My IP might talk about it more, but she actually breastfed. I didn’t breastfeed. She breastfed. So she took the medication that she.

07:01
required and she best fed her baby. So I did a little bit of colostrum, but I felt like in that room I was there for support to a degree. So if she needed, I wanted her to be able to feel like she was confident in that space, but I was always there to give her a break too, if that made sense. So I wanted her to be the main person, but I was happy to give her a break at that time. And that’s a beautiful couple of days to spend together. You’re clearly close, so you didn’t mind being in the same room there.

07:27
have cuddles together and to savour this magical thing that you’ve all gone on together. Our husbands looked after kids, they went home and yeah they did what they needed to do for our family so and that was a big job for them as well. I have three kids so my husband did a lot of the heavy lifting on my side. and the partners are surrogates so sometimes the unsung heroes in this too aren’t they because they do a lot and some beautiful newborn photos here of Miss Hannah. Yeah they stayed only for two weeks after again this is from distance it’s just

07:57
way it was. Yeah, so we were able to get some maternity photos, is really, I’m sorry, newborn photos, which is really awesome. For me, like this is my payoff. I like this part, and also in the first photos. But yeah, so we’re able to get these ones, which are really, really cool. And there are some of the family, obviously, but they’re not sharing on this platform. But yeah, it was, it was just a nice space to have this. So it’s with the photographer that I’ve been with since Hayley was newborn. I think it’s really special that they included you, the surrogate in these newborn photos, because that’s not always the case that happens. So I that’s

08:27
lovely that you’re there and you have some of these beautiful photos to look back on too. Yeah. Yeah. And so then life goes on doesn’t it? So she’s you your niece and so you continue to catch up but was is that you tickling her there as she’s sitting on your lap? Yeah trying to get her to look at the camera. Again this is a very informal photo this is just us being at grandma grandpa’s house so you can see their house there.

08:49
that she’s hanging around. It was really nice to see her connection with William when she came because we don’t see them day to day. She was very comfortable with William. It was a very interesting moment when they kind of met. So cool. that’s a special connection. Yeah. And then the other photo is of us going to Canberra last year. So we were able to spend some time with them there.

09:08
Lovely. So many questions I could ask here. I’m just storing them up in my brain here just while we finish off the photos. Is this an airport photo? Yeah. So this is when we got to Canberra. She stayed up and she waited for Auntie Rachel and she got all dressed up and she was very hyped that night because we came in a little later. So obviously after her bedtime. So yeah. And the other photo I borrowed a Facebook, it’s just of her, but they’re actually going to the UK. So they live in the UK currently and this is her on the aeroplane to go there. So are they there indefinitely?

09:38
or for a certain amount of time? I’m just on contract currently, yeah. So I don’t know what’s gonna happen, but yeah, I’m on contract for a couple of years. Beautiful. Okay, so thank you for sharing those photos with us. We’ll go back to the beginning, but some questions about, I guess, the frequency that you see them and what language.

09:54
Hannah has now, has she described to you on perhaps like a Zoom or a FaceTime, you know, that she grew in your tummy or something like that? Yeah. So as part of those maternity photos, we’ve got like a wooden frame. Does that make sense? And it’s in a house and she sees that. So I’m her tummy mummy as part of her language. She knows that I helped her. I grew her. She knows that that’s an open story to her and it’s just something that they have. So I was really lucky as well. They added my name as her middle name. So that goes along with

10:24
her so that’s really nice as well. is a beautiful tribute. How many times in terms of frequency of seeing them being an interstate team, how many times did they make it up or you make it down there during the pregnancy and then post-birth too next time you saw them after that? So during the pregnancy it was more to do with appointments so whether we needed to go down to Sydney or we need to go to Canberra for the IVF or it was based around appointments during.

10:47
generally down pregnancy. Also realizing that I was a full-time teacher and I have three kids and there are just things that I can’t just leave for, if that makes sense. The appointments were probably big enough for us. I actually dropped very early, much earlier than my other babies. So it looked like I was going to go early. It felt like was going to, I was going to go early. And so the decision was made that that my IP came up earlier than expected. So we spent a good amount of time together prior to birth because of that. And because people could see that I dropped.

11:17
I started waddling. didn’t want to be at school, put it that way. So I actually finished earlier for work, just in case. Yes. Remember how many weeks along that was when you started?

11:26
think the plan was two weeks, but it actually ended up being four to six weeks earlier. Yeah. I stopped at about 35 weeks, but I guess you’re older each time you have a pregnancy too. So it does sometimes get a bit harder. Yeah. And I think it being a teacher as well, depends on the holidays. So it really depends on when you want to finish and when you got to do your reports. So it depends where everything falls in terms of school holidays. Yes. That sounds, yeah, it’s just the way it is. I know. I get that too. Yes. And when you can hand over your classes or however it worked. And then

11:55
post birth, so they went home after two weeks post birth and then when was the next time you saw them? They came up to Cairns a few times, maybe two times, and then we went down to Canberra. Nice. But we have regular contact through messenger and we get phone calls all the time. Yeah, that’s what I was going to ask. So how do you make that work long distance? You do it in other ways. So photo sharing in the odd phone call or face? Even overseas now it’s interesting because there’s only one time of the day we can really call each other.

12:19
because it’s a different time zones. So yeah, it’s really interesting. Yeah. Well, that’s a credit to your team making it work interstate or overseas. It can be done. So that’s a great example. Yeah.

12:29
team and because you’d already had uh an interstate relationship prior to the pregnancy, you knew what contact looked like with that family too. It might not necessarily be in person all that often but there are other ways to keep in touch. absolutely. And we’re both on the same page with most things so that was never a concern being having the contact. Sometimes it’s just because she wants to call and say something just like a three-year-old would. Does that make sense? It’s like I just want to tell them this.

12:55
Sometimes it’s very innocent, some of these conversations, but it’s all good. Before we go to answering a couple of the questions that I’ve seen come through there, take us back to the beginning. So you offered it clearly at some point to be a surrogate. And so then take us through the offer and then you had to do the counseling and legal and the IVF sort of give us a timeframe for that. You knew that they needed a surrogate. Is that how it worked? So my story is we were there for a two week holiday and there, you know, there’s just right time, right place kind of moment.

13:20
There was just lots of conversations around me, around surrogacy and things that were happening. And I just couldn’t get the thought out of my head. And just so you know, the contacts at this point, they weren’t looking for a surrogate. They weren’t talking about a surrogate. None of it was spoken about. And I couldn’t get the thought out of my mind. And I’d come back, obviously, we’re living at their house. So it’s really hard to talk with my husband feeling like, okay, if I say this, will they hear it? So for two weeks, it’s running through my head. I’ve come home and I said, look, my husband, this is what I’ve been thinking for the last two weeks. And he goes, I was thinking,

13:50
the same, but it was not my place to put it on you. So he was supportive from the beginning. So we were both thinking the same thing, even though they weren’t thinking it. They came up the following week and so, cause our holidays are slightly different a week off. So they came up to Cairns that following week. We actually approached my brother-in-law. We mentioned it him cause it was a surprise to him. He wasn’t looking for it. And we didn’t know how people would react. And we said, look, this is what we’re thinking. Let us know what you think. So it was a complete surprise. So beautiful. And then you took some time.

14:20
to talk about what that would look like and then you had to go through the IVF clinic with them in Canberra or New South Wales somewhere? through Canberra, yes. That’s right. Do you roughly remember how long it was from when you brought up that conversation then to the first, the embryo transfer? I don’t.

14:37
Why I remember 2017 would have been the holiday and 2018 when this stuff all would have happened. Yeah. So about maybe a year, a year and a bit. don’t know. I don’t know exactly for sure. when it happened, it happened quite quickly. Does that make sense? My journey was quite smooth compared to others and that’s okay. That’s just my journey to give you context to they already had embryos. So they had frozen embryos at the IVF. So there was no, no need to do some of the other things that you might need to with IVF for an egg donor. It was also a

15:07
with these ones as well. It wasn’t a guarantee. They were quite old embryos and had been moved. So, complete gamble because we didn’t know that they have grades of eggs or something and there was no grading of these eggs. So it was just a complete gamble. Again, what I know anyway. Yes. Yeah. A very different process for us. But yeah, so that was all ready to go. It was just a matter of let’s just see how we go with these because that was their genetics. And if they had to go down a different path, we might have done that, but we didn’t need to.

15:36
Yeah, so it can work first transfer, but sometimes that’s great. So is there anything you wanted to add then um about the earlier parts of the pregnancy that we didn’t cover in the photos? Any particular challenges? Was this pregnancy harder or similar to your others? No, was similar. think every pregnancy you have, there’s certain things about your body that get harder or worse. It’s just cause your body’s broken from the previous ones. You know what I mean? Like it’s just, yeah, it’s just the way things are. But other than that, no, there was nothing major.

16:05
I just get weird things in my pregnancy. They get a little bit worse. So just one example is so I get red dots. They start here. It’s only on my left side of my body and I have red dots like

16:15
she can pox all the way on my left side of my body. Wow. They’re flat, they don’t hurt, they’re not itchy. The moment I have the baby, it disappears. Wow. So you can see there’s no scarring, but I’ve got four or five little ones here that will that stay. Right. Yeah. So there’s just, um, in every pregnancy they got more and more from the tip of my nose to the tip of my toes. Fingers tips. Yeah. It’s on the left. Oh, fascinating bodies. Hey, crazy things that they can do. Yeah. So just things got more intense if that made sense, but same things happened. Yeah. So early pregnancy was fine. I just found the

16:45
process longer in terms of when you naturally can see if you don’t know you’ve got a baby until eight weeks or six weeks. Um, for me, cause I’ve never gone through IVF, I actually felt like it was a longer process and I’m like, I’m waiting for, to get to 12 weeks. I’m just like, why is it taking so long? But when naturally you wouldn’t know, like you don’t even think about it if you were pregnant. So I just found the process quite long in that early stages. That’s true. The, the day’s drag sometimes, but then the year flies by. Yeah, exactly right. Well, we’ll go to one of

17:15
questions here by Jacqueline asks, so how did you go with healing after birth without breastfeeding? So my decision, my choice was you can take a little tablet within 24 hours. Now this was a health choice for me because when I breastfeed I go to a H cup. Oh right. And I get very big. So imagine, sorry for those people that, I’m a 10 in my bra and I go to a H cup. Wow. So it’s actually a health. Yeah. Yeah. And if I don’t express that milk, I’ll actually get mastitis and

17:45
become sick. So it was an important decision for me to have that tablet medically because then I didn’t have the milk. So then I wasn’t going to get sick and get flu like symptoms and then not be well for my family. So that’s a decision that I made for me. So yeah. And that’s a great example that we all need to make decisions for our own personal selves and for our own team and that everybody could be different. Am I right in thinking that, you know, expressing milk or breastfeeding contracts the uterus down and some healing there was

18:14
the stopping of the post-birth bleeding, any different or any? No, no, no, no, no, uh

18:43
But it’s hard to predict. for people listening here, you don’t know what you’re going to get. like even Rachel’s labor’s there, they were quick and then the fourth one they’re not. So you can go in with a plan, but you have to be flexible, I suppose, don’t you? Yeah, very much so. We have a question I can see in chat here. So Catalina asks, so in terms of private health insurance, would the IP’s insurance cover some of the costs or do you need to take another cover? So you said you went through a private hospital, Rachel. So does this question, are you able to answer this one? Yeah, no, that’s okay. For me, I was under private health.

19:13
I have my two big kids and I have my little one so I still had pregnancy on my cover so the IPs were able just to cover the extra exactly because it was or I was already covered and I hadn’t taken it off my policy yet because my my little one was two that’s again a negotiation of what you’re happy to do but it came under my cover anyway because we only had the one room and we’re yeah they were able to just pay the excess or whatever that amount was. oh

19:36
because that was covered under my private. But I mean, if you had a surrogate that didn’t have that, that might be different. And that’s why you’d have to talk to your surrogate specifically about their situation. Yeah. And that does highlight. So if the surrogate already has private health in her family, if she doesn’t have maternity costs on there, the IPs cover the difference. The IPs don’t have to cover her whole monthly costs because obviously that’s the cost she’s already incurring. If she doesn’t have private health, but the team decide they want to go private, then in that situation, they would have to pay the costs in the…

20:07
leading up to birth too and post-birth to cover that cost. So often surrogates I reckon though are that have been through the public system for their pregnancies and birth often stick with it but it might depend on what hospital or facilities or who’s going to engage with surrogacy around you and to what choices that you have or if you’re in Far North Queensland you might have limited choices as well. don’t have choices no, no. Only one doctor would even sign us off so no other doctor in Cairns would sign us off so and obviously she went through the private so people talk about choices but I

20:36
think in regional areas or smaller places where the service is not there, you just have to be aware of what’s actually available and who’s going to take you on. There was circumstances around why people weren’t taking us on and it wasn’t us. It was a previous incident, but at the same time it was very hard to jump through those hoops, which it should have been so easy because finding a doctor was our biggest. And I even had to prove medically and the counseling went through and I had to prove mentally that I was okay as well to the doctor.

21:03
Well, I hope you’ve paved the way for the surrogates up your way that have She’s done another one now. So she’s done another surrogate test. More positive cases like yours. So we’ve got time for another couple of questions, but I’ll just…

21:14
shoot a couple at you, Rach. Was there something during the journey that was challenging for your team and how did you navigate that? I mean, I know you said it has been pretty smooth, is fantastic. It’s a credit to your team. Can you think of something that was a challenge? It’s probably two things, the distance and appointments and trying to organize things was difficult, but also too, when Hannah did come along, the change in what that looks like and then being overwhelmed a little bit with the situation and maybe the expectations that first, know, those two weeks when they were around. Okay. So, cause it was just busy. Does that make sense?

21:44
different focuses happening, but again, it wasn’t a big thing. We were talking about a matter of two weeks. It’s a very small time. Yeah, there were some changes there. Yeah. In terms of them adjusting to being new parents and learning sleep-derived and pretending mum is adrenal breastfeeding and adjusting to that. Yeah. And there was some things I couldn’t help her with because I hadn’t gone through them either.

22:07
I can breastfeed really easy and there were some challenges for her in that space. And being kind to herself in that space too, knowing it’s okay that it’s allowed to be hard. Yes, although it’s a natural thing, it’s a learnt thing for babies and the mum too. It’s hard work. I remember it well. And so then too, then just navigating the way together in terms of, you know, you’re still their surrogate and you’re the birthing woman who’s going through changes too and navigating that relationship together as post-births can be tricky.

22:35
or just bumpy, bumpy, suppose. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes I like my own space, which is why I don’t mind the distance. And again, everyone’s different, but having my own space and getting back to my own family was also important.

22:47
because it’s such a big thing and then you’ve got to reevaluate what you have in your life and making that important as well. Cause you’ve done this amazing thing up here and then it’s a big fall sometimes down to the everyday things. So that’s, it’s a big fall mentally. That’s true. That’s good advice. Haha. See that’s often good advice for surrogates that we often say to each other is have a project planned or something to get on with. And so Rachel, I know what your thing that you got into, what did you get into post-birth, Rachel? I I learned a new language, which was Auslan. Yes.

23:17
and I connected with all the people over Zoom. So I found some friends. Wonderful. And so Rachel was telling me beforehand that every Tuesday night she’s running an online group where people are for three years. So surrogate baby Hannah’s uh three and a bit. And so this has been your project since then that you’ve kept going and built up a new community there. Yeah, exactly right. Wonderful. Do you think you’re always somebody that or do you think a lot of surrogates were people that need a project and do big things in life? We sometimes don’t swim with the school.

23:47
I’m not quite sure. I know that I like to connect with people, whether that be coaching or coaching or helping people along or connecting people with socially, just like this, or in Zooms on surrogacy. But yeah, I’ve always been doing something, whether it be photography or Auslan or making videos or, you know, coaching hockey. So there’s always been something else, which I do think is important because particularly with your own family, finding your own purpose and what you like to do is really important. It’s about filling your own cup too, otherwise you feel very empty.

24:17
Yeah, well to sum it up here. Have you got any parting advice that you I know you are a big contributor to particularly the zoom communities and so you often You know part wisdom and listened and share stories for those that might be brand new tonight anything you’d like to add I just think connecting people and listening to people’s stories or asking questions without fear Hopefully for the surrogates just to go. Okay, I’m embarrassed about this, but I want to know this I didn’t come into the community until I was 20 weeks. We were actually very private. Yeah, so we were well into the

24:47
pregnancy so we didn’t have any of this previous knowledge. I didn’t know it was there, that’s the truth. We were in our own little journey, own little path on the side. So when I met people I was able to talk with them and they understood what everyone was going through and that’s why I continue to go to the Zoom meetings is because it validates my experience because I’m in a new workplace for example. Nobody knows I went through surrogacy but things come out of my mouth and they go, what are you talking about? I go, oh I forget who I tell.

25:12
I’m sorry. And I have to go into the story again because they haven’t seen me pregnant. So it’s nice to get to a community where I can just talk about it and people know what I’m talking about or they know me from previous experiences or conversations. I would just say connect. You’re going to find your people, the people that you like. I’ve made friends in that community that I’m not going to be a surrogate for, but I talk with them about different things. So I found teacher friends over surrogacy that I talked to and it’s really amazing. So that’s great.

25:39
I think that’s great advice to find your people and that it sounds like you make friendships within that that will be aside from surrogacy and so it’s coming in with that view of building up those friendships. Thank you so much for joining me. On our YouTube channel you will find many other episodes as well as the images mentioned in this webinar. If you’re looking for more resources check out the show notes for this episode and consider joining us for one of our webinars so you can have your questions answered on the spot.

26:07
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