Episode 101 – Mothers of surrogates

Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one-hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents. There are opportunities to ask questions and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

00:41
This episode recorded in April 2025 is slightly different to our standard webinar series as it involved three sets of co-hosts, Tammy, Karina and Patty, who are all mothers of surrogates. Each of the surrogates connected to this episode have also joined me on a webinar. You can hear from Danny on episode 24, Gemma on episode 11 and Nikita on episode 52. This webinar recording can also be watched on our YouTube channel.

01:09
The questions we discuss in this episode you can find in the show notes. My secret dream when I coordinated these guests is so this recording could be of use to future surrogates and their mothers and families. So when a potential surrogate brings up the idea of wanting to be a surrogate and her family have some initial concerns, they could listen to this episode together, discuss any parallels, and hopefully ease some of the fears that are common at the beginning of a surrogacy journey.

01:37
If this episode is helpful to you, please send me a message and let me know. I hope you enjoy this episode. So I’m going to introduce you to the three co-hosts and tell you a little bit about each of them. So Tammy, Tammy’s daughter, Danny, birthed as a surrogate in Adelaide in February, 2021 for a couple who were initially strangers. She had a little girl, Evie, for parents, Sarah and Ben, who also live in Adelaide. She was initially a gestational surrogate for the couple, meaning they were trying with their own.

02:03
eggs, embryos, but then they moved to traditional surrogacy, meaning Dani is also the egg donor for the baby Evie that she birthed. Dani is also on a second surrogacy journey now with a new couple from Adelaide. Karina’s daughter Gemma from North Queensland birthed as a surrogate in Brisbane in March 2023 for two dads who were initially strangers but now friends for life. There were some unexpected challenges to navigate during the pregnancy. When Gemma’s waters broke 10 weeks early, she had to have an emergency C-section and birthed little boy Rupert for two dads, James and Jim Bob.

02:33
Gemma has also been an egg donor many times with I think at least nine babies born across Australia. And Patti. Patti’s daughter Nikita, birthed as a surrogate in Brisbane, Queensland in October 2023 for a couple that she met through one of our SAS introductions and SAS for Surrogacy Australia’s Support Service. They had a little girl, Isabel, and the parents are Menaka and Simon who live on the Gold Coast. Their team is also planning a sibling journey. And for context, Nikita and her family now also live with Patti and her husband. you can see.

03:02
some of the support that might go on there. We will launch off into our evening and I guess we should go from the beginning of what it was like when this all first started. So ladies, I’m curious about what were your first thoughts when your daughter brought up the idea of being a surrogate and were you worried and why you might have been worried? Tammy, kick us off. you remember that? I do, I do actually. When Danny came to us and when she had spoken about it, I had no concerns. Danny has just got this big

03:32
warmest heart and I you know she’s she’s a great mom she’s got three kids and I was I was extraordinarily proud of her and as I you know as I am today with her going through this again. Yes there were some concerns from other family members but not me I was not concerned at all it was an amazing journey and you know Evie is just an absolute goal and Ben and Sarah I love them to bits as well.

03:59
So it’s no concerns here whatsoever. I was told all along the way on how things were progressing. So, and I was, I was there. was alongside her when she needed it. is always there for her. Even Ben and Sarah’s family, were the same, you know, they’re, they’re all such amazing people and being able to get to know them and spend time with them as well has, you know, is, wonderful, but no extraordinarily proud, extraordinarily proud of my son-in-law and my grandkids as well for actually taking this all on also. That’ll be a recurring theme tonight.

04:29
the pride I’m sensing.

04:31
Marina, your journey is similar in some ways that Tammy could have written the script for me. It’s absolutely identical to me. Not surprised. My daughter was born a Gemma. Her nickname was Gem. She was a Gem from the day she was born and just gave her everything to everyone. You know, what she did for our family and friends. You know, she was always there to help Nana clean up in the kitchen. It never surprised me when she wanted to be an egg donor.

05:01
we, none of our family members ever questioned that that’s what Jemmy would do, you know, our Jem. And then she was asked by the only infertility specialist that she’d go to Dr. Keung down in Broadbeach, you know, any recipient would have to come from anywhere in Australia to Broadbeach because he had her back and, you know, she’s got great results.

05:26
Because you had that sort of knowledge and background of the medical journey that she’d been on, that you sort of felt that she was in safe hands and made it. Absolutely. I’d go down there with her, know, they’d cut people, recipients would come, we’d get put up in a hotel. I was there looking after whatever grandkid I had to while she was having egg retrieval. And, you know, we’d recover for a couple of days. But all those recipients were right there. You know, amazing journey. And then she, by Dr. Keon, got

05:56
to speak at a surrogacy slash donor conference for the weekend at the Hilton and she met James and Jim Bob who were looking to you know find a surrogate and they were just there literally for and giggles because they didn’t know the journey and every break and Jemmy’s eye focus just happened to I was there. Yeah were you? I met them both that weekend. Yeah aren’t they stunning and then Jemmy went home to her app

06:24
And this is where you say, Tammy, her husband, her kids, my grandchildren. Jemmy went home and said to Will, would you allow, you know, I want to do a surrogacy for this couple. I’ve just absolutely warm my heart and I want to help them. You know, no surprising me with Will, her gorgeous husband. Yeah, I’ll support you. And the journey’s just been funny and organic and didn’t go well at the end, but I knew my daughter had nurtured Rupert.

06:53
right to when she could and her body chose otherwise. yeah. Long journeys. Wouldn’t have seen it. Didn’t doubt. No questions. All the extended family. Everyone just, yeah. No surprise. No surprise. Patti, what about you then? When Nikita started talking about it, it was either during or after her first pregnancy, which went really, really well. Knowing full well that she hadn’t finished her own family, but started looking into surrogacy at that point. So she was really, really interested in it from then on. And it was something

07:23
that I had thought about doing myself for a friend. Oh really? But health issues came up and stopped me offering. And I’d never even mentioned that to her, that I’d ever even thought of that. So for her to want to do that and it’s just such an amazing thing for somebody to do this. And then when she met the IPs through SAS, I was in the background looking after the grandkids while she was having the chat with them online. And I could just hear how well they clicked and the enthusiasm. And she came off that just on an absolute high, just ready to go. You know, it was so amazing.

07:53
That’s fascinating. And I tell everybody about it because so many people don’t think that it’s legal in Australia, they don’t think that it’s something that people can do. I mean, I’m just so proud of it. So I tell everybody because of that. But I also tell just because people don’t know and it’s a matter of spreading the word that you can be a surrogate, you can have a surrogate. These are options for people who can’t have a child any other way.

08:14
That’s a great point. It’s that ripple effect that you ladies in turn are educating your own friends and family about this being legal and how it works. you probably didn’t know about it, Anna, until my daughter and you you obviously, Patti, we’re going to do it yourself. But I had no idea. It’s amazing when you’re in that space to give.

08:35
what was our greatest joy in our whole wide worlds and people don’t have the opportunity to be mums. And then we’ve got these gorgeous, gorgeous human beings who want to give to people. We have the opportunity to have, but you know, it’s just, oh, just I could sit here and cry with you all because that’s how I feel. So we’re so proud. so, so in the context, two of the teams, they’re carried for hetero couples and one team here carried for the two dads.

09:05
and obviously the two dads we understand need surrogates and then there’s so many women out there who have either fertility struggles or cancers and things that just they just need help to have family and it’s a great way to normalize it isn’t it that families can be made in lots of different ways. One thing we were talking off air before about was the fact that each of these three families have carried for people who were strangers. I haven’t managed to have a mother of a surrogate on

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who was a team where it was family. So the daughter carried for say a sister or another family member that they knew beforehand. So I was wondering, so Patti, do you think it might’ve been any different? Like I know you’ve got three daughters. If your daughter Nikita, who was a surrogate offered to carry for her own sister, do you think you might’ve had different concerns in terms of how to support each of your girls in this? No, my only concern would be would the one carrying the baby want to try and parent the child of the sister because they’re right there with them. And they’ve carried it.

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would they want to be more involved in the parenting side of it even accidentally you know not intentionally or unintentionally just trying to parent because they carried that baby for that person. So I guess it depends on the individual person doesn’t it? That’d be my only concern. But other than that I wouldn’t have a concern about it. Tammy could you anticipate anything? No look!

10:20
Go for it.

10:50
suppose get our head around the whole thing like the surrogacy, the egg donation, et cetera. I mean, look, even if it was successful as a family, don’t think we would actually look at it any different. We wouldn’t look at it as if it’s blood relation in that respect at all, because yes, you offer your body, you offer that opportunity to be able to carry and to be able to help. But at the end of it,

11:20
there’s beautiful parents there they’re going to take care of that child you know what I mean? So you know exactly exactly and they’re going to love that child with everything they’ve got and you know that’s you see it I’ve seen it time and time again yeah yeah and she’s amazing and I know she wouldn’t mind me saying that’s her yeah I think for me I probably did have some concerns from my side and so I carried for two dads and I remember it was the dad’s family when we

11:48
them they were full of joy because here was this woman Anna who was going to help their gay sons be dads and it was like wow what a woman but my family and my in-laws at the time they had their concerns I guess there was that you know well every pregnancy brings risk and every birth brings risk and is it going to be any different because it’s an IVF pregnancy is that going to affect your body differently and I think it was even my sister-in-law so it was my now ex-husband sister who I’m still quite close to said I don’t fully agree with you doing surrogacy

12:18
but I will support you. I live locally, so if you need any supports in terms of physical supports, helping out will help you. So I did find that a little bit challenging. My parents are proud of me now, I know, but there was still those concerns, how’s that going to impact my family? How does my husband feel about it? How are my kids going to cope with mum having a baby and then giving it away, so to speak? And so for me, was that joy and that pride took a while to come. And so I had this sense of,

12:45
I’ve sought a lot of parental approval in my life up until now and here I am wanting to do this big project and I might not have complete approval. Do I want to do it anyway? And so there was this sort of growing up moment for me where I’m like, yeah, I think I do want to do it anyway. So yes, it’s become a journey that my whole family have been on and they’ve grown.

13:05
as we’ve gone on it, I suppose. Yeah, we had all those discussions within that. Right. But still feeling proud of what she was doing and everything. But still had all those discussions. How does an embryo from a different couple affect your body? How does, you know, and one of my concerns was what if something does happen during the birth and we lose her? You know, like not, it wasn’t a big concern, but it was, crossed my mind. that was, that was very, very, very close to home for my beautiful daughter’s experience.

13:30
she got that little man through like the timing and how things happened and how our village and the boys, the dads and like just family. mean, right place, right time, but. But also for that.

13:44
team. mean, we might get to the birth in a bit more detail, but since we are here. So as we said in the intro that Gemma birthed 10 weeks early and there was a flight because Gemma’s in North Queensland. I’m in Adelaide. The boys are at the gym in Brisbane. Gem’s husband is in Mackay. Anyway, dynamics. And you were hands on deck helping out there too. So it really did affect your family. And then the ripple effect of that, I know, has still continued on for two years in terms of that. Wow, what we did, we

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and

14:14
with mum’s life, like your daughter, the surrogate’s life on the line there and with her family nearly without him. so I know the effect of that can still be felt for quite some time. Big time, big time. So it’s not with my grandchildren as well. But Jemmy would still not have it any other way. Like Rupee’s just honestly 10 week deficit. He is just the most you would not know. Like my daughter did everything she could to nurture that little boy.

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as a tummy mummy and he was born, all he needed was a feeding tube for a

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a little bit. You know, 10 weeks early, he didn’t need oxygen, he didn’t need anything and that’s, know, Jemmy did that. Alrighty, well I’m going to move through the questions and see what we’ve done there and what we’ve still got to go. One of the questions was how did you explain it to your extended family and how did they react? I think we sort of almost talked about that. we’ve covered that, it’s like whatever, think what you like but yes. Yes, I suppose it’s… no will, speak no will because we don’t want to hear it. Well maybe, but in terms of slowly educating them all of the time and you might have had to have buffered

15:20
some of their reactions to that too. Did anybody have any negativity, Patti?

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that sort of thing, where giving the baby back, all that sort of stuff. Like they knew right from the beginning that that was how it was and I just explained to her like that and yeah she sort of got the idea after that but it was just that she’s the only one that did and I didn’t feel any negative ill will to her, it was just an opinion and not understanding what went exactly. Yeah and I think it is. Nikita’s kids were little as well so you know you’re looking at a three or four year old you know and this baby there’s a baby and then it’s not there.

16:14
There is some, you know, he had to learn how to adjust that into his little brain. yeah. My kids, when I birthed, they were four and six, but they’d known the dads, and Brennan, for two years. And we explained you need an egg and a seed to make a baby and a girl’s tummy to grow it. So if it had been for a male female, you’d say her tummy was broken or, you know, they were two dads. And so we’re going to grow a baby for them. And my kids are like, OK. And then you’re right from the outset, as soon as Nikita was.

16:41
testing to see if she’s pregnant. that’s someone Monarch’s baby that they knew straight away. yeah. Yes. Tammy, do you remember anything? Yeah, look, there was obviously some family, know, extended family that are going, are you sure this is the right thing for her to do? And I’ve gone, actually, she’s a grown woman. And if this is what she wants to do, then I’ll support her 100%. And so will the rest of us.

17:04
And you know, gave them no question to, yeah, gave them no opportunity to question it. no. And look, my grandkids obviously were a little bit, were a little bit oldest. I see the relationship that they have with Evie now and it’s just absolutely beautiful. Absolutely beautiful. And, you know, and Ben and Sarah, and I don’t think I could be any prouder. And so I think everybody is hearing here that clearly the teams become entwined. And so there must have been a point where you each met the IPs that your daughter

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carried for and so I’m curious as to how you met them and what your involvement was in that journey and in the pregnancy. So Tammy, do want to keep going and tell us? Yeah look I can remember the first time I met Ben and Sarah was at the Royal Show. So was there.

17:53
I’d met, I’d seen obviously Danny and Troy and the kids there and met Ben and Sarah then. And then, look, just, the relationship just grew. was, you know, along the journey and then at some of Danny’s gigs, you know, I’d see Sarah there as well. And it just got, you know, just got to know them. Look, their parents, absolutely amazing. Absolutely amazing.

18:16
a really lucky little girl. Yes, but that’s really interesting. Again, people at the beginning going, hang on, not only did you meet the IPs, you’ve met the IPs parents. So there’s a lot of logistics that have had to go on there to organize some those. beautiful friendship. did you meet, do you remember meeting Menaka and Simon? Yeah, we went to their place, but we didn’t just, it wasn’t just my husband and I, the whole family went. It was like an all in thing. You know, like here we all are and here we all are with you on this journey. Most of Nikita’s sisters came as well and there was just, you know, just

18:46
to of us, our foster daughter and her partner and the grandkids and everybody, like we all rocked up into this house. it was really great because it sort of, it showed them that it wasn’t just Nikita doing this for her, for them or with them. It was all of us are with them and supporting them. So it was really, it was kind of like, you got one, you got us all. Yeah. That’s powerful. That’s really good. I mean, sorry, jumping. I know even with Matt and Vicky, know, I mean, know, Matt and Vicky have been to my place. I’ve been and Sarah have been here, but you know, we’ve had

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like Danny’s son’s 18th birthday party and Matt and Vicky were here. So you really, you just get to know everyone and it’s a big community really. And I think that, you know, we’ve got to be available to support not only super us to support our kids going through this, but also I think being a support for other moms and dads that have got, you that are parents to surrogates.

19:41
Going through you know starting to go through that journey and yes going oh, I don’t know about this I think it’s really important maybe to have someone to talk to that has been through this journey and be an advocate most definitely Yeah, we were there at the end to it was staying down the coast in the light and think Nikita was like 39 weeks or so 38 and a half weeks pregnant and we went We went over to their place. Look, have you put the pram together? Do you know how to put the pram up and down yet? Now? Like oh no, we haven’t even put it together like get that pram down here

20:11
ready at that end bit, know, right before the, was really nice to be able to them get together, get ready at the end there. It was good fun. And I got to go to the last scan and that sort of stuff, which is pretty beautiful. Trying to think for myself though, I don’t think my parents were that heavily involved. We’d certainly made a point of them having met the dads. No, I can’t remember. I’m not sure if they have seen them post-birth. How long ago did you surrogate Anna? How long ago was your? Four and a half years now. I actually home birthed.

20:41
with midwives. I had home birthed my son and my parents had been present at that birth because my dad had home birthed in England and know, whatever. So I was interested in that. And so because they understood how home birth work, they were interested as to how, you know, we were getting all the logistics and the pool in rights ready and all of that sort of stuff. But I do remember they came up a few days post birth. I can’t remember if they saw the dads or not, but they certainly had a card or a gift for them too. So, you know, it was that, you know, welcome to parenthood type of journey to there. Well, we’ll keep going just for context.

21:11
And Jemmy mentioned Matt and Vicki and they are the new intended parents that Danny’s planning on carrying forward. Were there any concerns with me, Anna? No concerns whatsoever. The only thing actually came from my mum and my auntie who were sitting in there who were making all the noise before was that, well, purely my mum was the concern that Jemmy had been put under general so many times who had been, you know, who had given so much of her

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self and it was just concern but it

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wasn’t ever non-supportive what Jemmy ever, ever wanted to do. So yeah, that’s my little bit. Yeah. And so then do you remember, Corrina, when you met the IPs for the first time? Oh, I do. So Jemmy lives six hours away up north in Tannum Sands, yeah, far north Queensland. As you all know, there’s a massive, massive system that you’ve got, you know, counselling and… The legal side of it. So Jemmy came down.

22:14
and for something and jemmy said oh james and jim bob and jim bob’s mum would like

22:22
us to meet them for dinner. So we went to Woollongabba to a beautiful Thai restaurant and I met them and one of the dads is called Jim Bob and they asked what I wanted to what I like to drink and I said any wine’s fine and I thought Riesling from when mum drank it when I was a lot younger that it was a sweet wine and they said oh do you like Riesling and I went yeah I want

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and they ordered the bottle that came out had, so it was Jim Barry Riesling and it had JB on the lid.

22:55
And I absolutely loved it. The banter and the conversation was just so amazing. And I’ve drunk JB Riesling ever since. So that was our first meeting and it was, yeah, beautiful. Yeah. that’s, that’s left an impact on you. remember? Absolutely. It just has encouraged me to drink more wine. So I love them for it. So then as you say, there’s a process to go through. There’s counselling and legals and engaging with an IVF clinic.

23:25
Ultimately, they all got pregnant at some point in time. Just give us a bit of a snapshot as to what each of those pregnancies were like for them, if that was similar to the ones they’d had before, if they were harder or the same. And yeah, do you remember any of the highlights and lowlights? Patti, did you want to kick us off of the pregnancy that you remember? Yeah, I remember Nikita being a lot more fatigued at the beginning and a bit sicker because she was a little bit older, a few years older, which makes a difference. How old was she, Patti?

23:49
she’ll answer that. Oh sorry. She must have don’t know, Yeah right. I think yeah. Not far off my daughter when she did it. Yeah, whereas she’d had her first one at 22, so that can’t be right, she must be younger than that. But anyway, I’ve had a rough day today, can’t think. Yeah, have I. Yeah, she was just that bit tighter and a bit, yeah, and having three kids to run around after makes a big difference, so that was probably the main difference in the pregnancy. And little things like, you know, couldn’t bend over because she’d feel

24:19
sick and things like that. Yeah, a few little things but nothing major. Tammy, what do you remember of the pregnancy? Look, Tammy, obviously, you know, she had previous three. She’s just a get up and do it type of girl. it’s…

24:34
I didn’t see much difference. mean, she might’ve been a little bit more tired. But Danny just, she just gets up and keeps going. She does. And she will just still drop everything with, know, even when she was pregnant, drop everything and do something for somebody else. script again. Again, there we go. script again. But you know, I mean, Danny might have a different, different, you know, different story to this.

24:59
Exactly. But to me, she, was, can’t remember her pregnancy being really any different from what it was from her last, which was Dustin. No, she just got up, kept going, soldiering on. Yeah. And coming out to drop, she was definitely only about 30. My brain is a bride today. She’s just interjected and pulled you up on that. She’s going to be bad at this. And absolutely the same as Tammy. Gem was

25:29
a mum to four of my most amazing grandchildren, as we’ll all say. Different ages. So my grand son’s about, my eldest is about to turn 15 and the youngest out of four is about to turn eight. So two years ago, Rupi’s just turned two. So two years ago, she’s got high school difficulties and stuff going on and she’s got two in primary. So boy and girl in high school, boy and girl in primary. Her husband works in industry.

25:58
up north, so he’s away a bit. The tiredness and yes being 33 when she fell pregnant with Rupi and it was first take, so so proud of her. But honestly, when she was tired, when she couldn’t cope and Will, her husband was away, you know, in Tannin there’s no Uber Eats, there’s no nothing, but the boys shipped a freaking free standing freezer with all the drawers and they’d send her, you know, food packs from Brisbane and they’d send it clean.

26:28
in, you know, they did absolutely everything that they could possibly do to support her in those times. Yeah. That’s a good point then.

26:37
It was family and supporting them. And I guess there are some surrogacy teams where the relationship does dissolve while it’s at the end and they’re not friends at the end. But sounds like all of your teams have been a success. Do you specifically remember times of hearing about what supports the IPs were giving your daughter and thinking, oh, wow, they’re doing a lot or maybe they’re not doing enough. Well, that’s a tricky to answer, though, isn’t it? Yeah, I know for me, like with Danny, know with Ben and Sarah, and they were there for everything.

27:07
they were so supportive and as Matt and Vicky are now. And when Danny was pregnant with Evie, I can remember cooked meals being delivered to her. It’s just that whole family atmosphere and how the extended family with the IPs, they really want to help and they’re so thankful for everything they’re surrogacy is so very different to egg donation, isn’t it? But egg donation’s the same, but because

27:37
not pregnant, you don’t get that growing giving support that you need. Yet at length of relationship. But you’re carrying this intended, you know, these people’s baby. You know, our experience was that the boys just went above and beyond, you know, almost to the point where Gemma and Will were embarrassed because of what the boys did. And then I sat back and without saying anything, just thought that’s the boys. They’re so respectful. But this is the greatest gift our daughter

28:07
could be giving these people and if they could pay and do more which they can’t they would but they were doing everything that they could. Trying to be thoughtful there. that’s what I felt with Nikita’s IPs. Yeah he felt like if they could give more they would if they were allowed to give more they would. Yeah but they’re not allowed. Yeah they’d send food, meals, cooked meals home. paid for And that’s what Gemmy got. Yeah. They even paid me like paid for me to go over and look after the kids one day while Nikita had a scan. I’m like they’re my own grandkids you don’t need to do

28:37
that. Yeah, that’s beautiful. It’s all in the calculations and stuff. You really don’t need to do that. I know. And that’s us. But that’s, that’s beautiful. They appreciate it. It just felt like they just needed to give. Yeah. As a way of thank They couldn’t, there was, there was nothing that they just couldn’t think at the end of the day of what they could do legally to help. Yeah. You know, it made them so upset, frustrated, but we knew they appreciated, Jemmy.

29:07
It sounds like great teams there where the intended parents are bored with the pregnancy because it’s their pregnancy as well too. they’re supporting their surrogate, they’re supporting their unborn child. But suppose that then leads us to birth at some point in time.

29:21
What the births were like and those first few weeks and months after birth in the surrogacy community we talk a lot about the fourth trimester so those first three months post-birth and in particular one of the psychologists Katrina Hale talks about this idea of head heart hormones so where and I’m just really explaining this a little bit to people who might be brand new and listening this idea that your head and your heart know where baby is they’re nurtured and cared for they’re in the house and the arms of the people that you wanted to do this for you’re joyful that you’ve done this as a surrogate the parents are

29:51
happy because you you’ve done this surrogacy together and their parents but your body your hormones don’t get the memo that you where’s the baby it’s searching for this baby and so some people are okay adjusting to those hormones I I got hit with postnatal depression so I struggled quite a bit so I guess that’s what I’m interested in that’s probably what beginners listening to this might be wondering how did your daughter go handing over that baby and her children and then those post birth hormones adjustments were there anything so Patti do you want to kick us off what you remember yeah it seemed to go really

30:21
well. So and Malka stayed close by. whenever Nikita wanted to see Bub, she saw her but for that first couple of weeks, but also she fed her for that first few days or a couple, I can’t remember exactly how long it was and then expressed. So they’d bring her over for a feed. she got that hormonal settling down after the birth. Bub needed to go to hospital and Nikita had to go with them because she was still registered as Nikita’s baby.

30:43
So Nikita had to give all the permissions for anything to be done in hospital and things like that. So she actually probably spent more time with her in that first few days than she was going to. But yeah, it seemed to be good. It seemed to settle down pretty well, hormonally. Yeah, no problems at all. Well, she’s going again. So I don’t think that would, if it didn’t go well, then she wouldn’t be offering to do it again. As you mentioned, Nikita’s children were youngish at the time. Do you remember them having any issues with the adjustment to baby not coming home? No, not at all, because they got to see her the next day and they knew with some in a Menaka set.

31:13
they knew, they could visually see that the baby was theirs then as well. So yeah, there was no problems at all. And it was a really quick birth. Like they got there and she got the birth she wanted, but it was very quick. And one of the first things I said to her when she sent me the information,

31:29
that she’d had the baby and when they got there and all that sort of stuff I said, you made a family today. Oh, that’s beautiful. And that’s what it’s about, isn’t it? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it’s the gift of life, right? Not many people do that. Yeah. Pretty special. Tammy then.

31:46
Do remember the birth and then the time post birth? Do. Danny actually did this most beautiful surrogacy journey video and it was from the very beginning right through with the birth, cetera. And it was just beautiful. And I’ve shown so many people that video. It makes many people, right? It was absolutely beautiful. Now, Danny, when like that.

32:08
Part of it was between Danny, Troy, the kids and Ben and Sarah. As long as I got a message to say she was okay, I was right. And then, once Danny got home, also maybe for a few days, as the mama went over there and just sat with her and gave her a hug, and as you said, Anna, it is the hormones.

32:28
your mind, you know that the baby that you’ve just delivered is with the parents that that baby needs to be with and everything, you know everything’s fine but you’re right, it’s your hormones, your hormones.

32:40
And the difference is, it was your daughter’s egg. wondering how that went. I don’t think that actually come into it. No, no, because it was always from my memory, was always OK, it was her egg. But the whole journey along though, was Ben and Sarah’s baby. wasn’t. Yes, know, it was. was Gemmy as an egg donor. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

33:10
Day three, yes you do. Yeah, but you you’re just there for them. Like I went there and she knew that I was, she only needed to give me a call and I’d be there at the, you know, I’d drop everything for her and I’d be there and just go and lie on the bed with her if I needed to. And you know, my grandkids, they’d come in, mum are you okay? Mum are you okay? And Troy, know, Troy was, I can get a little bit overpowering with the, are you okay? Are you okay? Love him to be, but.

33:37
But it’s, back, this is my That’s stand back. That’s right, I’ve got this. Yeah, she did maybe for a couple of days, little bit teary, but besides that, the birth and everything, as far as I was aware, all went perfectly, perfectly well. But that video, I think, was just absolutely beautiful. Yes, yeah. So sometimes those things that you put together, and yeah, we had a photographer and we put together a photo slideshow and that’s been complete. So, Karina.

34:06
Well, and just on that, also talk about that it’s quite important then for the surrogate to still see the baby. Like one guidance is maybe like every day in the first week and then you go to every second day so that the surrogate’s body still has those cuddles and can just, you know, ease off seeing how often they see the baby. So, Karina, you were quite hands on deck because the birth was earlier than planned. What do you remember of those times? I guess it’s more once they’re out of the woods, so to speak, of the early birth and the hospital issues. How do you remember that time post birth?

34:36
Toast birth, oh, goes on forever, Anna. Like, Dill’s so real. So I was in Adelaide. Will had just gone to Mackay for work, husband, Gemma’s husband. Gemmy was on her own.

34:50
10 weeks early rang me, I’m shopping to set up this new home in Adelaide and I’m in Woolworths and I get a call from her good friend Anna who’s actually a pediatric nurse at the Gladstone hospital and she said, oh no, I got a call from Jemmy first, sorry, in the morning early saying, mum, I think I peed myself but it’s more than that and being 10 weeks early you’re like.

35:15
This can’t be happening, but Jamie was feeling really fatigued and really different for a few days before and she’s so not a drama queen, but something was brewing.

35:25
She took herself to the Gladstone Hospital and called her friend Anna. And yeah, it was amniotic fluid. All hell broke loose. Being 10 weeks early, they got flying doctors in. I got a call from Anna saying she’s about to get on the plane. I could sit here for the next hour and tell you. Well, that’s probably a good opportunity for me to do a plug. And I’ll say that each of the daughters of these ladies have all been a co-host on their own and they have a recording. And so in the

35:55
recording of this that I’ll put up, I’ll put the links in. So if you want to hear each of their full stories, love that. So, close. Yeah, that’d be lovely. just what do you remember then in terms of her struggles navigating her first birth? Yeah, so, so obviously little Rupin, as healthy as he was born at 10 weeks early, he was in the NICU and the boys, never left Gem’s side. Let me just tell you before and after Rupin’s birth. And then she had an emergency

36:25
CCC section with placenta abruption, so could have lost both of them. But she was in the right place at the right time. She was in Sunshine Coast University Hospital as that happened, which was just timely. She was on bed watch, bed rest. Post his birth and the birth of Rupert was just a few weeks of her team being around her, not leaving her side. And people sort of started to

36:53
heart and Rupert was discharged from the hospital, Jemmy was discharged, so went back to the boys. In terms of the distance, she was away from her own kids for a little while too. And that was devastating and they were down for a bit and, you know, had to go home for school and stuff and they were traumatised because, you know, we’re all talking out loud, stupidly about how it could have gone and that affected all of my grandchildren, but they knew on another, you

37:23
know, question a couple ago that, you know, Jemmy was tummy mummy, the boys had been up copious amounts of time, Jemmy and Will and the kids came down from the holidays, we knew them, they were family, we knew their family. But as far as

37:38
The separation, I’ll never forget, we were sitting, so Rupi had come home and then I was escorting Jemmy the same day back to Gladstone to nurture her because it was an emergency C-section. We had four kids to keep going in life, four grandchildren, and just the cuddles and the love.

37:58
There was, think, a different dynamic because Jermi would sit and knit you with Rupert when the boys were having a break. And the bond that she formed with Rupert was just beautiful. She was detached, but because of the trauma of his whole birth and then the time frame that we all were there before and after, there was a…

38:19
bit of a difference with detaching and then I had to take my beautiful girl onto the plane, take her back to Gladstone. So then we got back into mummy mode and nanny mode and we were doing the thing and the boys just kept in so much contact. were beautiful. Roopy as soon as he was well enough or strong enough to come for a road trip, know, FaceTiming every day. But I think the trauma only hit Jemmy of what could have been a couple of months ago. And

38:49
It’s been a struggle for Jemmy, but she’s an absolute fighter and through counselling, she’s getting through and I’m so proud of her. that’s the different side of something that can be so normal, which she had my four grandchildren. I was in the birkin room each time. There was not a problem in the world. So she felt like a failure to…

39:15
James and Jim Bob that you know this but she she put so much on herself from the moment her waters broke and it was trauma then for two months and then got back home got into doing what she was doing and then it’s hit up. you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that with us because I think it’s a reality that sometimes births and often surrogates become surrogates because we had fairly smooth pregnancies in birth but reminder that it might not happen. There might be a ripple effect of

39:45
the children of the surrogates in terms of not being with their mum. Oh and the kids have needed help as well. They’ve gone through their trauma. Not taking away from the boys. It’s what Gemmy- We’re here to talk about From herself that she didn’t feel she delivered but it’s the trauma of also potentially not being there for her kids going forward and they’re just hurt. And it’s a reminder too that any of the challenges that-

40:12
happened in surrogacy could still crop up two years later as you’re working through things. So thank you for sharing these stories, ladies. But it’s a beautiful journey. It’s a gorgeous journey and I encourage anybody who wants to do it for a moment if they’ve got the opportunity to help other people who can’t be as fortunate as us to have children. know, it’s opened my eyes in a beautiful. I agree. We’re going to start to wrap it up. Tammy, one question for you is because that, well,

40:42
you kind of touched on it because this particular child, Evie, is genetically related as well. you see them, well this question is relevant to anybody, but do you see them as a grandchild to yourself then? No, because it’s, she’s got the most beautiful grandparents. Evie will always have a special place in my heart, most definitely, most definitely. But no, I’m not her grandparent. She has got the most beautiful, amazing grandparents. And you know they adore her. Exactly, exactly. Going into this with Danny and knowing, you know, with genetic

41:11
that you’ve really got to go, well, hang on a minute. Okay, there might be some genetics, but it’s just because you are a genetic biological parent, let’s say, doesn’t always make you the parent. Yeah. Or the grandparent. Exactly. It’s who brings you up, who provides you everything in life. But please don’t get me wrong, Evie will always have a very special place in my heart. Most definitely. She’s a little princess.

41:40
But it’s beautiful that you can be a part of her life and that’s so special. Definitely. Definitely. I know with Danny’s hubby’s 50th birthday, were there and Evie was following my husband around. Sarah said, I’ve just left Evie with Frank. Is that all right? went, yeah, he’ll be fine. And that’s all you wish for. that’s beautiful. Hey, my youngest granddaughter, Tammy, is Evelyn, but we call her Evie. So is

42:10
Eevee’s full name Evelyn or is it just Eevee? Eevee. Eevee. It’s all… Little Eevees. Yep. Two Eevees. Well, to summarise it ladies, you now know a lot about surrogacy in Australia.

42:22
Are there any changes that you think we should see for surrogacy in Australia? Carina? It should be more out there. It should be completely organic and transparent. And, you know, there should be a lot more support for surrogacy in Australia as it is offshore. It should be easier for people who are childless, who can’t have children. And there’s this amazing network of people here in Australia who are

42:48
who are willing to be surrogates. You know, it needs to change in that space. really does. sharing more stories. Keep it in our country. Keep that support in our country for people who can’t be parents. Yes. Hopefully by sharing more stories, working in our Medicare system, might have more to be surrogates. Absolutely. Tammy, anything else? The one thing is obviously the support network. I think this, what’s happening today in regards to this webinar,

43:18
is I think being available to speak to other parents of surrogates. they actually know they’re not alone because sometimes, I mean, for me, I was lucky. was like, no, knows what she’s doing. That’s all good. But there might be parents out, what are they doing that for? Do they really know what they’re doing? And I think if they’ve got the knowledge and they’ve got the availability to speak to someone that’s been through it, then I think it’s important.

43:46
The support group of parents of surrogates. Exactly what Anna’s done tonight. think you’ve done a good thing. Yeah.

43:54
I think more promotion that surrogacy is an option because we all instantly jump to fertility problems as IBF, there’s things like that. But surrogacy isn’t an option that is out there. even just for example, you know, like the amount of times we talk about surrogacy in our household never comes up on my Facebook feed. talk about- Oh, and you the algorithm would pick it up and it doesn’t. That’s right. So it seems like, not that has to be promoted on Facebook, but just that whole, in doctors’ offices, is it promoted? In hospitals, is it promoted? Because I don’t

44:24
it anywhere. And I don’t understand why. I do not understand why. And there is such a limited number of surrogates in Queensland. Absolutely. And a lot more people wanting surrogates in Queensland. And if you do want to keep it so that you can keep that relationship within the state sort of thing, which is, know, for some people that’s a thing, there needs to be more promotion that it’s not illegal, it’s

44:47
no more unsafe than any other pregnancy. There’s just not great support for it and I don’t think people who think about it, yeah, they pay for your medication, they pay for your obstetrician, da da da da da, but you’re not paid for it. So it’s got to come out of the goodness of your heart and that’s why we should be so goddamn proud of these beautiful, beautiful women that we’ve raised to be that minute.

45:14
part of such an amazing gift and I’m, you know, we’re so proud. Yeah, but potentially there are a lot more women out there who would be willing, you know, who’ve had their family, enjoyed the pregnancies, enjoyed what they’ve done and would like to do it, but don’t even know that it’s an option. The first start of how to, yeah, exactly. And it’s only because of Jemmy’s egg donations that she went to this and she knew about surrogacy, but she met these guys at an egg donation slash, which you were at Anna, you know.

45:44
awareness. Yeah, yeah. And so then just looking back on your own journeys ladies is there anything that you would change or is there anything that we haven’t covered tonight that is worth mentioning? Carina? Not at all.

45:56
Nothing I would change and it’s been beautiful being on the panel with you guys because our stories are the same. So thank you. Thanks for doing this, Anna. That’s all I need to say. Thank you. Patti, anything else you wanted to add or? No, nothing I’d change or add. No, nothing I’d change. I agree. It’s been terrific and I was really excited to be a part of this panel. So, you know, you guys are all amazing and thank you, Anna, for putting this together. Yeah. Thank you.

46:24
Yeah. Well, thank you very much, ladies. It’s an honor to do this. I’ve had this on my to-do list for quite some time. yeah, just…

46:31
really hoping that it can become that resource for all of us who have been at the beginning as a surrogate who knows that their family has some concerns. And so if anybody is listening to this recording in the future, I would love for you to find me on Facebook, Anna McKay. But none of us have had concerns. So get on board people and help those people that need your help. You know, no concerns from all of us. Yeah. And I suppose if anybody listening to this as the parent of a surrogate or family does have concerns, they’re welcome to reach out to me.

47:01
and I could put you in contact with one of these women or somebody else. Yeah, happy to. Thank you for joining me.

47:11
If you’d like to see other recordings with photos, head over to our YouTube channel to watch other webinars. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy. Also check out our Zoom monthly catch-up sessions, which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child,

47:36
and in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child. So welcome to the village.