Episode 165 – Jodie – surrogate

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you

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Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie. Thank you for sharing your time to listen to this episode. These recordings are from the regular one-hour free webinars that I run, which I invite you to attend if you haven’t already. They take you through how surrogacy works in Australia, including how to find a surrogate or intended parents. There are opportunities to ask questions and you hear from a co-host each time about their own journey.

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This episode featuring surrogate Jodie is one from the archives and was recorded in January, 2022. Jodie birthed as a surrogate in Perth, WA in June, 2020 for her friends, Kate and Cole that she knew prior to surrogacy. They had a little girl, Alison, and they maintain their beautiful friendship, but with an extra special status of Auntie Jodie. Both Kate and Jodie have been my SASS mentors over in Perth.

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and they have helped many new IPs and surrogates at the start of their journey. You can hear from mum Kate in the next episode, number 166. I hope you enjoy this episode.

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So now we’re going to head over to Jodie and I’m going to share some photos of part of her journey and we’ll have a leap into what her journey looked like and then we’ll head into some question time. So Jodie, as we were saying beforehand, here you are pregnant as a surrogate. Obviously quite a lot has happened to get to this point. We’ll come back to that bit. So this was a maternity photo shoot for your team. Who have we got in these photos? You’ve got Caden, Colin, the IPs, my fiance Jason and my son, or our son I should say, Tyler.

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photo there with him hugging your tummy isn’t it? and growing little Alison. Yes of course Alison in your tummy. What language have you used with Tyler? Is he like a tummy cousin or he knew that that baby was going to go to Auntie Kate and things? He was you know only 18 months roughly I think yeah when it all when I was pregnant so he was kind of too young to kind of understand but he knew it was Kate’s baby, Kate and Cole’s baby. In fact he asked one of my friends who was pregnant if it was Kate’s baby in her tummy.

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because he doesn’t understand that people normally grow their own baby. Agreed. My kids had the same too. remember Emily asked somebody else, a friend, you know, she saw the mum print, she said, is the baby going to live in your house or not? Yeah, yeah. And yeah, Tyler, I had a C-section, so I now know I might have to give you a C-section photo. You need a C-section photo.

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video. Tyler will quite often comment baby Ali, would cause a baby Ali. So baby Ali and him both came out of mummy’s tummy. he yeah. It’s totally normal for him to babies to come out from other people’s tummies and to live in other houses. Again a hand photo. It’s you know a beautiful photo for Alison to look back on here. And then so this was a June 2020 baby so everybody cast your minds back. So this was you know beginning of COVID. This was a baby shower with a few people was it? Yeah we were only allowed 10 people at the party and even that

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only it was like not even a week beforehand that we were allowed 10 people. we were, yeah, at one stage we didn’t think we gonna have a baby shower at all. But then they allowed 10 people just beforehand. So not really, when you think back to before when you offered to be a surrogate, whatever, having a COVID pregnancy is not really what you planned. COVID was not even around when we started. COVID got a few hurdles in there, but you get through them. Yep.

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and you’re out the other side. So this photo taken in hospital. Yeah. So I work at this hospital. I’m a nurse. I’m a nurse manager. As you can imagine, I got quite good service and this was a view from my room. When you sent this photo through to me, I’m like, that looks like they’ve just come out up there in hospital, but the hospital has a view like this. Yeah, this is so funny.

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of Mount Lawley. Yes, that is our view. So that’s the Optus Stadium in the background and the bridge and everything. That was my view. Kate and Cole had the room next to me and they had the same view as well. Wonderful. So I’m sure that’s a classic question for anybody at the beginning of their journey. How does the rooming work? you all stay in hospital together for a few days rooms next door? Yeah. So obviously I know working for St John of God, we’ve got surrogacy policies in place.

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So yes, people ask that because they are a Catholic hospital, but yes, it’s allowed. I’ve even policies. It’s a situation of where possible. I had this room booked in well and truly in advance. We had separate separate rooms because it was a C-section. I stayed for five nights and Kate and Alison stayed for four nights. So they did go home one night before me. Lovely. And so you had your doorway apart and you could have cuddles whenever you needed to. And I would just wander into the room and like,

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let Kate go and have a shower. I remember them coming in and here I am with Alison and they’re like, of course I knew them all. So, you know, the midwives were like, of course, you know, so we were just, you know, wandering to each other’s rooms. She wants to do something. She’ll give me Alison and yeah, very comfortable.

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with each other. As a surrogate I imagine there’s a little bit of pride that goes in showing off to your colleagues who have supported you and worked with you through this whole pregnancy. this. Yeah the midwives on the ward because I actually worked closely with them in my job it wasn’t nine months for them it was longer like yourself I had

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to fail transfers, their involvement in that was throughout the whole thing. So it was a lot more than just nine months for the staff there as well. Yep, they ride. Yeah, my work colleagues at the high school I work at ride the journey with us. And so when was this photo taken? Alison’s first birthday. Beautiful. that was June. Yeah, a year just gone now. Yeah, Yep. And so how often would you say you catch up now? Oh, random. You might see each other a couple of times in one week and then you won’t see

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other for a month. Like any friendship, it’s no different to pre all this. Obviously we caught up for Christmas Day or not on Christmas Day but we caught up for Christmas. I quite often get invites to things like their little family Christmas things and things like that.

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Like even for Alison’s birthday on the actual morning, they had, you know, special things that just the family and us. You’re a sorrow family, aren’t you? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I’ll say every couple of weeks, roughly. And that’s a great example, I think of what is comfortable for the team. It sounds like you’ve gone back to the same pattern that you would as friends beforehand, because you had that to draw on what your friendship looked like before surrogacy, which can be helpful. Exactly. We’ll head into question time. Perhaps before we even do that, we should sort

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take us a bit back to the beginning. mentioned that you had some failed embryo transfers. So how long did it take you from when you offered to birth? But then how did you become a surrogate in the first place, knowing that Kate needed a surrogate? Our situation, Kate got cervical cancer and had to have a hysterectomy. She didn’t have to have any chemo or anything like that, but it was very quick from diagnosis to you need your uterus out.

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As a friend, knew from the beginning, well, at first we just naturally thought that Kate’s never gonna be a mum. Within time, Kate obviously did her homework and just as friends, as a group of girlfriends, we would talk and she would say, okay, well, surrogacy is an option.

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I was single at the time in WA. I can’t be a surrogate. I have to have completed my family. I knew Kate’s situation. I had said to her, I reckon that would be something I could do, but it was never, it was not an option at that stage. I met my partner and I think this is where you’re always stating on earlier. Very early on, I basically said to him, oh, if we have a kid too, then can we have Kate and Cole’s next? This is what I want to do. And he being him went, yeah, I’ll work with you.

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I reckon we could do that. and so we did say to Kate and Cole, you know, if we have a child and everything goes well, we’ll do it for you, you know? And so with not even a year, I was pregnant.

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So, we knew that the process would take about a year at least a year like the actual just the legal stuff and accounting we kind of had heard that it was roughly a year. it was for you, was about that with all these points? We got it under a year. Well, I think, I think off the of my head, it was about nine months. Six to nine is pretty common. Yeah. And, and that’s including a couple of failed transfers as well. Okay. Yep. In your year. Yeah. Might’ve been a little bit more. I think we just got it just under the year mark. Once I kind of had

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my son, we had Tyler and we said, okay. And I don’t, can’t remember. think he was a few months old and I started looking at, that’s when I properly started looking into it. And then I saw also that it was about a year. So I then said, dude,

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I literally just rang her up or I sent her a message or something and said, okay, well, we better get this started. You know, we better get this on the road because it’s going to take a year and I was 38 at the time. So we said, well, we better get this started. And up until that point, she had her hopes up. But was that the first moment she went, wow, you’re serious? Or is it she didn’t want to get her hopes up or she believed you the whole way?

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think she believed me. I think she believed me because I remember when I told her I was pregnant, she burst into tears. But then, you know, because of that, my friend’s pregnant and I can’t be pregnant. But then Cole kept saying to her, this means we might get pregnant, you know. Yes. And then we talked about before so that sometimes there’s different pressures from different friends and family about their opinions and thoughts on how many kids you might have in your own family. And so they, perhaps other people were thinking, oh, you’ve had Tyler, you’re one.

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Oh, maybe you should wait until you’ve had your second before you do surrogacy. What if something goes wrong? Is that some of the pressures that you had? Yeah, definitely, definitely. My dad, even now still, even though we’ve told him we’re done, my dad still goes, oh, I’m…

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another one would be good, know, another, you know, it’s like, it’s not gonna happen. you know, yeah, I definitely had friends say to me, oh, you can’t just have one. You’ve got to have another. You’ve got to. I was always very comfortable with if I had one and Kate had one, I say Kate, but obviously Kate and Cole and obviously Jason as well. I was always comfortable with, and for me, it was, I would much prefer for myself to have one and Kate have one, then I

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I have two and she has none. And because I was 38, I was 41 when I had gave birth to Alison. You I was already in that age group. It did get brought up. I just saw my cousin on the weekend and she said, come on, you’re going to have another one. You’ve got to, you can’t just. My dad’s my boys. They were one and done. Like I had thought I would be a surrogate twice and do a sibling for them. But I knew from when I met them that they had, you know, 99 % sure that they were only ever going to have one. Is that something?

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then have you learned about yourself to be able to wear all of those comments and opinions from people? Has that surrogacy changed you or taught you that? Oh I think I’m comfortable in my own skin and comfortable with my own decisions so it doesn’t bother me and

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I suppose I’m a very upfront person, so people are very upfront with me as well. Listen, don’t get me wrong. There was definitely, especially when you’re pregnant, I thought to myself after I had Alison, and you know, all these thoughts go through your head when you’re pregnant, because you don’t know what you’re going to be like afterwards. You don’t know. It’s the total unknown. I thought that, I honestly thought that when I had given birth to Alison that

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that would really make me want a second. And it didn’t. That’s when Jason and I sat down and had a conversation and everything and said, no, we are done. It’s Tyler and Alison. So you had your two pregnancies and your two births and you did what you wanted to do? Yeah. that’s it. we were comfortable with that from the beginning. At the end, yeah, it was very comfortable. And I still don’t really, and even more now, I don’t want to go through that. And yeah, I’m done.

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other projects to do now. Yeah exactly. Did you have much support because I’m not sure if you are hugely active in the Facebook group or even the surrogates only group. Did you have support in terms of many other people in the surrogacy community or particular people in your life that were quite supportive for you? I would say from the surrogacy community no. I will say we didn’t do SASS. I wasn’t even really aware of SASS.

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That’s something more that I learned of later on. think we don’t even started. You were already on your journey.

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Yeah, that wasn’t something that we had. went, we did join a Facebook group and I am on that, Facebook group still, and I joined a surrogacy Facebook, like two different ones and one just for surrogates, but no one really posts on that one. But this other one, went to, had gone to some before and Cole together, this when they were learning and Kate must have learned more from it than myself. And we went to one session and just about everyone there, not

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One, I was quite surprised because not one single person knew their surrogate and majority of them was overseas. But this was also pre-COVID. So I imagine COVID’s changed a lot of that as well. We only went to the one and there was a couple of people that, you know, we just had a chat with here and there, but

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I think I just relied more on my friends and work colleagues and that. And it’s important to have those work colleagues or people that you can vent to because pregnancies can be hard and it doesn’t mean that you don’t want to do it but it still doesn’t mean there’s not hard days to it all there. That’s good that you had a network and you had a well-established friendship there with Kate and Cole beforehand to lean on each other. So that definitely sounds like you good support there. I can only see one question from Michael here people so maybe once we answer here somebody might feel brave and feel free to ask something. You’ve got Jodie here too.

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tonight so no question is too silly because chances are…

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another five people listening are going to be super glad you asked that question. So Michael says, what are the chances of a single gay males to find a surrogate? Please correct me if I’m wrong, but do surrogates prefer IPs who have partners making single males the bottom of their list? I could have a thought. But Jodie, do you have any thoughts on that? I have limited because it’s not legal in WA yet. have had one involvement with a surrogate who birthed at my work. She was doing it for her brother and his partner and they were from New South Wales. So that’s where

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they were able to do it. but otherwise I’ve had very limited with because it’s not allowed in WA yet. I guess from my experience, so Michael, I do know there have been single gay or straight dads. Actually, I’m not sure if we’ve had any straight ones yet, but I could think of that surrogates have carried for them. It really comes down to the relationship and particularly when you speak to experienced surrogates about that, that’s exactly what they’ll say. It’s a friendship to a deeper level. So if you think Michael, you are worthy of making friends with people, which of course you are, then of course the surrogate is worthy of

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making a friendship with you too. Two thoughts on that. There’s a presentation that I gave last year now. I think it’s in the further reading section called, how to find a surrogate, but it’s more about how to find your surrogate. So follow that up if you can. And in terms of how to meet other people and ask these questions, one thing I’m really passionate about is that we should be able to do surrogacy without being on Facebook. So we do Zoom monthly catch-ups, usually the second Friday of each month. We had one just last Friday. So Michael, they’re now run by two surrogates, Amanda and Danny. So come along and ask,

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Then that question next month, if you like, and hear that answer from two other people. So that’s a really good question, but because as I said, sort of surrogates are paid in friendship and love, it’s down to that connection. So no, it doesn’t necessarily put you at the bottom of the list, Michael, by any means. I know of people who have been in the surrogacy community for five years like me, who have not connected with a surrogate, even if they’re a hetero couple. It’s about the right click for everybody. Vincent and Lily have a question. Regards to adoption and surrogacy, could we pursue both at the same time, or could we only pick one or the other? Not quite sure of the law.

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in Australia. Let me phrase that to you Jodie, if you knew that Kate and Cole were also following an adoption path while doing surrogacy, would you have an opinion on that? I wouldn’t bother me. If they’re willing to even end up with two babies, that’s fair, that says.

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These things take time and nothing’s guaranteed. I look at it as if you’re opening your options to broaden your chance of being a parent. I personally wouldn’t have a problem with it. It’s interesting, I might have a different answer. And that’s okay, isn’t it? So Vincent and Lily, it would depend. If I would just be honest, I would tell potential surrogates that that’s what you’re doing. Because a surrogate like Jodie might not mind, but another surrogate might feel… So if you’re building a relationship with a surrogate that you didn’t know previously, you have to really fast track a friendship. So you’re to be investing a lot of time together.

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She might feel like if your time’s a over there doing the appointments and paperwork for that, she might not feel that you’re investing the time in building that friendship or relationship. Maybe, maybe not. But if you’re doing it somebody that you already know, like Jodie and Kate’s team, it might not be a problem. That’s one stat that I haven’t shared with you again by my data gathering. At least 80 % of surrogacy teams know each other beforehand. 80 % more likely to find a surrogate from somebody that you already know or friends of friends. You’ve got to be talking about surrogacy. This is for the IPs listing, I mean, just in terms of the stats.

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there. Jodie, some other things, can you think of some of the major challenges that you had then in either the paperwork stage, the pregnancy, beyond if you felt there were any major?

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challenges. Definitely our lawyer, had a few little issues with that. There’s definitely little hiccups going through things. Yeah, and we had COVID. I actually changed because I was going to another hospital initially. And because of COVID, they were like, no, it’s just you and Kate, you’re not having partners, you’re not having anything like that. It’s just and I

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wasn’t happy with that so that’s why I changed to my work. Thank goodness COVID literally we were allowed visitors a couple of days beforehand so that was fantastic because grandparents, anyone, we were allowed any two visitors at any time so it wasn’t just us it was everyone could kind of come as long as there was no more than two at a time. We had hiccups there, we had my third trimester. I thought oh great and I have all this support in my trimester because of COVID that wasn’t so much the case. My

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Fiance is five-o. So he went from one-on-one to two and two. I had a two and a half year old at home, a very active boy and they closed the playgrounds, won’t go there. My parents leave, it was only just over an hour away, but it was regarded as rural. So they weren’t even allowed to come in. So I thought I was gonna have all this support for my third trimester and it literally got taken away from me. And on top of that, I never had

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to have iron infusions or anything like that with Tyler, I was really, really good, had no complications whatsoever. With Alison, my iron was quite low. I tried to do it with tablets and diet, was definitely not the case. And I got to the point where I was walking upstairs short of breath and the midwives were like, Jodie, you know the symptoms.

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And I was like, yeah. So we, and I did, had to have iron infusions. So yeah. So it definitely had its little challenges here and there. you have a cry about that at some point? Did you have some wallow days going, this is a bit unfair? I cried over other, other little things or just your general emotions, but I’m not a big crier. I’m not, I’m an ED nurse background. So that might give you a bit more idea of my personality.

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Have your little pity time for a while and pick yourself back up and get on with it. It is what it is. Just get on with it.

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And then post birth, you have hormonal wobbles? In some ways I feel like surrogacy is a bit against mother nature. You’re supposed to keep the baby at birth. And so your brain and your heart know that Alison is loved and cared and looked after, but sometimes your body might feel a bit lost. Did you have any of those feelings? No, I have to be honest. No, I was really, really lucky. I was very, you know, I had a few little things in the way of, but they were more medical things. I had a little episode where we had the C-section and caused my nursing background. I knew exactly what was going on.

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And I’ve got a right neck from, cause she was a Caesar and they took her off to the side with Cade and Cole to do all the baby checks. And all I wanted to do was watch her and that with right neck and having fizzy over my neck.

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couldn’t not watch. I had a few little extra physio things there with that. I chose not to breastfeed because initially Kate tried to breastfeed herself. So she did induce. Unfortunately, it wasn’t for them. People who are breastfed, they know it’s not always easy. They had a few troubles and decided that no, they’re going to go with formula. The aim was for her to breastfeed. So while she was in hospital and that she was trying to express, she was trying to pump, she was trying to get it.

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get some, she was able to induce the type of smell. So I took medications to stop mine coming through, because I didn’t want to get mastitis and it didn’t work. I got home and literally the day after I got home, I was lucky they’ll never pay me for and my obstetrician told me off for not going to him because I could have retaken the medication, had another dose. But thankfully I just did that. Don’t touch, don’t express, don’t do anything, type bras and it eventually

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they’ve stopped. And funny enough, one of the ladies who surrogate, was a surrogate at my work who was a patient, as a surrogate, I gave her my work email and she had exactly the same and she emailed me going, my God, my milk’s come through. unfortunately, just because you take that medication and just you don’t have a baby around your home, nature doesn’t sing still. Yes. So there’s an example of mother nature. This is what I should do. Yeah. So some of that could happen. Well, a couple of things to tie up. We’ve got

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One question here from Jing Jing who thanks us for our information. Glad that you’re here to join us tonight. The question is, and maybe Jodie you can answer, maybe I can try, if we’ve got successful stories in terms of surrogacy for other ethnic background IPs to share. They’re a gay Asian couple. They’re feeling a bit, might be a bit difficult for their journey at the beginning here. I guess so Jodie’s in WA where the gay guys haven’t done it yet. Yes, I know of a variety of ethnicities. Sometimes either one of the dads, you know, is of an Asian background, sometimes both. So yes, absolutely.

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happens and I’ve had a few join SASS at the moment of you know Asian backgrounds or one couple might be South African and one’s Asian and a real variety so yes again it all comes down to that relationship so I say to you have you ever made friends with anybody before? Of course you have so you are worthy of making friendships with a surrogate as well it’s just another friendship so you have to just be yourself and but you need to be active in the community as an IP so that people can get to know you it’s not something you can sit back and do but keep talking about surrogacy among your

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own networks too because one of the friends that already know you as the wonderful person that you are might step forward or a friend of one of those friends would that be fairly standard advice Jo do you reckon? I agree 100%. So then sum it up something that you’ve learned about yourself and some advice for anyone listening? If you’re surrogate look into it find someone it’s it’s amazing is something that it’s unexplainable sometimes you just

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It’s something that is definitely worth doing. If you can do it and you think you’re the right person for it, then look into it because yeah, and I’d say for the IPs out there, ask your friends because I’m doing it for my friend and I’m, when you said Anna, that the family, when I saw the grandparents, that nearly was even more emotional for me than the parents. But see them, yeah, ask around because you just never know. And if you don’t put it

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out there. Very good advice. Talk about surrogacy. Tell people that you need a surrogate because people might not even know that you even want to have kids even if you’re the two guys. So yeah, you do need to talk about it. Are you proud of yourself, Jodie? Oh, very. You can’t explain it. It’s something that you just, yeah, it’s a feeling that is like no other. Yes, it is. And it’s an ongoing changing thing too, isn’t it? As you get to watch Alison grow up and now it’s the language she’s going to develop, you’re going to have some beautiful interactions forever. Yeah, definitely.

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Thank you for joining me. If you’d like to see the photos shared in this webinar presentation, head over to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar. You can head to surrogacyaustralia.org for more information about surrogacy. Also check out our Zoom monthly catch-up sessions, which are a great way to connect with others in the surrogacy community. Attending a Zoom is scary the first time, but there’s only ever one first time. We have all been beginners at some stage. As we say, it takes a village to raise a child,

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And in the case of surrogacy, it takes a village to make a child. So welcome to the village.