Episode 152 – Marlena – surrogate

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you

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Welcome to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series. I’m your host Anna McKie and my aim is to raise the level of awareness of surrogacy through these conversations. This podcast is a recording from a webinar that I host and you can find more details about those and upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org. The webinars are free, go for an hour and we’ll take you through how surrogacy works in Australia. You can ask questions, typing them in anonymously if you prefer.

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and you hear from a co-host who has navigated surrogacy in Australia, either a surrogate, a gay dad, or a straight mum. This episode featuring surrogate Marlena was recorded in May, 2026. Marlena and her wife, Maren, live in Newcastle with their two young sons, and she birthed little boy Ezra as a surrogate in August, 2025. She met her IPs, intended parents, Jamie and Kody, through our Surrogacy Australia monthly Zoom catch-ups.

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of which they are all regulars. Marlena was initially dating some IPs prior to the one she carried for, so it took around three years from when she went looking until she birthed. Marlena has spoken at surrogacy conferences, contributed to our Surrogacy Australia Board, and advocates for surrogacy at every chance she gets. You can hear from one of the dads she carried for, Kody, in episode number 150. This was a delightful episode to record and edit.

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Marlena spoke so well and with such passion. This is one of the few episodes where the surrogate goes into detail about the wild hormones that can happen post-birth and how she navigated them. This is particularly helpful for new surrogates and IPs to hear firsthand about what to possibly expect post-birth and to then plan as a team about how to navigate it. I hope you enjoy this episode.

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Marlena, after all these years, we are here together celebrating your surrogacy journey. We’ve got some beautiful photos to go through and a lot of them are more from the pregnancy and birth onwards. So we might do the beginning at the end about how it all came to be. Tell us what’s happening in these first couple of photos. So the one on the left would be part of my how I asked.

02:24
Jamie and Kody, well not asked I should say, how I offered to Jamie and Kody to carry a baby. We had been surrogating for about six months and my family had come down to Melbourne to spend the weekend, I think it was a long weekend with them. And so we offered to carry a baby for them. Very exciting and often surrogates have a little bit of a quirky way to do it because there’s a little bit of like, oh what if they say no? Did you have any of those fears or you pretty much knew by then with the fact that-

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I think we knew how solid we were and I think they knew it was coming as well without completely knowing it was coming. I suppose it really is sort of like any relationship, you know where it’s headed, it’s just how you can ask. Yes. And then, so there’s a…

03:08
A lot to happen, you we talked before off air about you did the counseling and legals and pretty much for your team was pretty smooth there. And then eventually you head to embryo transfer and then it’s that two week wait to see if you’re pregnant or not yet. That’s pretty much it. And being an interstate team, I was the one who would be getting the calls or I would be the one doing the home tests and things like that. And it’d leave half our team without that knowledge. So we.

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previously discussed and made decision that any tests we did, we would do together as best we can being an Interstate team. But I wanted to think of a special way of letting them know whether we got that 2025 baby or if we had to wait for another month.

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And so it worked first embryo transfer, is that right? Yes, that is correct. We had both those little pregnancy tests wrapped up and we told them which wrapping paper to open and it just so happened that there was only one present that needed to be opened. Wonderful. And so, yeah, they didn’t have to see the, uh let’s try again next month. No, I don’t think they’ve ever seen that in person either. It’s still wrapped up.

04:11
Right, so that’s the photos that you took of them. Yeah, so that’s photos I took before we wrapped them and on that photo in my phone I’ve written blue and green so I knew which wrapping paper to tell them to open. Wonderful. So yes, it’s about ways of finding that excitement if you can’t be together in person. Yeah.

04:29
And then we move on with the photos and we’re at a baby shower photo here. Obviously there’s a lot of pregnancy. Perhaps we’ll come back to that in terms of how it went and the types of support. Do you happen to remember how far along the pregnancy were for this baby shower? I think I was just on 30 to 31 weeks. And so you guys and your family and I’m pretty sure their egg donor too came over from Perth. So you guys came down and that was quite a celebration I imagine with their friends and family. Yes. So was absolutely beautiful. We had all of Jamie and Kody’s family travel to Melbourne as well.

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for it and my family along with the egg donor herself she came as well it was lovely to spend that time with her and really get to know her.

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Wonderful, yes. And so great examples here for people who are brand new and wondering, oh, what could it all look like that this friendship that develops too. Okay, you birthed in your town that you live in of Newcastle. And so the lads, they came up to be near you for a while before and after birth. For those that haven’t heard Kody’s episode, can you tell us how long they were there before and after? Well, the boys were very involved in the whole pregnancy. They came up to almost every ultrasound. This photo was one of those ultrasound. They came up and we decided to get a maternity shooting at the same time.

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The boys came up 10 days before due date, which just so happened to be his birth date as well. Naturally born on his due date. Good lad. Timely. And they were here for three weeks after. Yeah. And so they stayed nearby like an Airbnb or something? Yes, they had an Airbnb. Gosh, I think about 10, 15 minutes away from us driving. Yeah. So quite close.

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depending on the time of day. Yeah. And so, yeah, these photos, and so there’s this combination of pregnant belly photos. Your wife and two sons were involved in them too. And you said to me, this photo of your belly and the son is one of your favorites. Yes, it is. I don’t know what it is about that photo. It’s just beautiful in my opinion. I know you and your wife carried one son each. How did this pregnancy compare to the previous pregnancy you’d had? Similar or harder? So I carried our second son.

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and the only way could describe that would be an absolute unicorn pregnancy. No sickness, it was textbook easy. This one would be a bit harder, but I’m also a little bit older.

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different genetics. But in saying that compared to a lot of people I’ve spoken to, I still had an absolutely wonderful pregnancy. Cool. Yeah. Well, that’s pleasing, isn’t it? When you’re doing this ultimate gift for people, it’s nice if it goes smoothly. It is. And that brings us to the day of birth. And so you got your VBAC, your virginal birth after cesarean there. I love this photo there on the left there. There’s in the birthing suite, there’s lots of information written on that. Why is that a special photo for you? I think it’s so special for me because they didn’t just put me, they’ve acknowledged

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the whole team. They’ve put in our plans, all the different details about them. They’ve even mentioned surrogacy pregnancy. So the hospital, cannot fault them. They were amazing, never once disrespectful, gave Jamie and Kody the full rights as parent, but then handed me paperwork to sign basically.

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Yeah. And as we can see, you had a birth photographer with you too. And I think this these photos, we’ve got quite a few, which I’m so pleased you’ve shared them to show people who are at the beginning of their journey, what support can look like. So it wasn’t just the IP standing in the corner waiting to have their baby talk us through, you know, these photos of the types of support that was going on. So as you can see, Jamie’s right there with me and there’s my wife as well. So my wife was a powerhouse girl. She was up in my head the whole time talking to

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through it and just being present. And as you can see, Jamie’s brushing my hair back and just checking in full nurse mode came in. Yes, because Jamie’s a nurse. And just both of them were an absolute amazing support throughout the whole labor. And we were there for a long time. Being a VBAC and were a couple of risk factors. They wanted to keep a close eye on me, get me in early. And it was a very long and slow first stage. But as soon as it kicked off, it kicked off.

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fast. Yes and again some surrogates at the beginning might be wondering like oh you know do I want the IPs that close they were strangers or that full-on this beautiful photo that you’ve shared on social so it’s your bent leg and there’s there’s a bit of muck you know as this happens around birth and it’s your hand under your knee and Jamie’s hand one of the dads is holding your hand so there’s that answers the question other IPs hands-on during this process. So Jamie, Kody, my wife and I we’ve built up quite a good friendship very

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open, honest, we built this strong foundation of trust. And I think that was the first step in starting to having this good birth and having them so involved and part of it. I couldn’t imagine them not being there for the whole thing. Every boring step, an amazing, wonderful step of the way.

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And that photo of Jamie just holding my hand and holding my leg up, because that’s what he was doing. He was instructed by the obstetrician to hold my leg up because Bob was coming in on a funny angle. And as soon as my leg was, my hip was in that correct position, just, contractions later, he was here. So Jamie got a very, very good view.

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of everything. And I wouldn’t have been able to have such a successful and amazing birth without his help in the end. And I know they’re listening tonight and as you were when Kody was on and I always find it’s a beautiful thing as a team to hear the other half of your team share that story and hear the pride that you have in each other and the friendship. It’s a beautiful thing to hear. And then little Ezra was born.

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And then we’ve got some photos here of you holding him and doing some direct feeding. Yes. So that was one of the things that we, I wanted was the first hour of just that golden hour, help with my own healing, the milk coming in and just.

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hormones, safety, knowing that everything’s okay, the shock waves of after labor and the adrenaline rush. Your body needs that attention. And I invited Jamie and Kody, they were very respectful in the letting me have that time. But I wanted them, as you can see in the photo next to the breastfeeding photo, I invited them over and they stayed with me so they could be with their son. I think there’s photos further on where you’ll see them while he’s with me. Oh no.

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In my photos, I’ve got them touching him while he was on my chest and we just spoke and it was such an amazing yet somehow very casual experience. Yes. Very natural. And I was similar. I actually held a mice surrogate above Baker, I think for an hour and a half. And so some people are like, Oh, will I be holding my baby within?

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few minutes. I’m guessing these lads and your team had talked about like they will have baby for the rest of time. This hour or this time post-birth is really important for the surrogate and other people that the parents can do skin-to-skin you know when it’s their time as well. So that was something that your whole team was supportive of? Yes, very supportive. They understood the benefits and just the need that I as a surrogate

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for needing that contact when we’ve just gone through such a big experience and I personally loved having them right by my shoulder the whole time for it as well. So they were there with me and then as you’ll see later on the handovers where they got to have that contact and their skin to skin that was absolutely beautiful me to watch. absolutely isn’t it like and and this one of the photos here of you and Mirren watching them be dads and hold their son and as the surrogate seeing that

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that you’ve created be pretty powerful as you look at these photos? Yes it is. My wife did the handover so she carried me through pregnancy and birth and I thought it was only fair that she carried Ezra over to his father’s. Beautiful. That was just amazing to watch and seeing him it really felt like all the puzzle pieces had finally slotted into place. Like I was holding on to something that was not meant to stay with me and as soon as he was in their arms it just completed it.

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And the second photo is after I went off and I had a shower and my partner came and she cared for me while they had their lovely, I think they had about an hour at least, just sitting with Ezra while I went and tidied myself up and then came and sat down and just watched and it was beautiful. Yeah, I really like the way you phrased that about that this baby wasn’t meant for me, I was carrying him.

12:47
And I think for IPs listening who’ve never met a surrogate before to hear you say that hopefully brings them some sense of understanding. And also for the surrogates listening going, yeah, I feel the same. I feel like I could do that. But then it’s not just about the team of four, isn’t it? You’ve got two sons as well. And so then they got to meet little Ezra at some point. Yes, they did. So they came and met him, I think. Oh.

13:09
24 to 48 hours after he was born. these photos here are our fresh 48. So the birth photographer came back to the hospital just at 48 hours. Yeah, 48 hours after he was born and just…

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some lovely newborn shoots for all of us together. Yeah, and seeing your boy hold their boy or boys hold them, that’s pretty special. It definitely was. My eldest, the little redhead there, Thomas was very attached to me in pregnancy. There’s something about pregnant me he just clings onto where my youngest didn’t want to bar of me in pregnancy, which is funny because as soon as Ezra was born, my eldest went back to, OK, you’re old news, but this baby’s brand new. I’ll have some of that. And my youngest was all,

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I love you again, mom. You’re my mama. You’re mine. The whole world revolves around you again. Oh, there’s a baby. He’s quite cute. He’s Jamie and Kody’s, right? Yes, he is. Yes. And there’s another question. So surrogates often wonder how do the kids go with it? So how old were your two sons when surrogate Ezra was born? So Thomas, my eldest, was two months away from five and my youngest was three and a half. And because they were explained it from the beginning, they knew from the very start that

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Mama was pregnant. The baby in my belly was Jamie and Kody’s baby. We’ve got a beautiful book about surrogacy, about a kangaroo and the joey she carried. And because of that book, they ended up calling Ezra Joey in utero. So he was Joey for a while. And yeah, as soon as he was born, that took him a while to wrap their head around the fact, oh, baby Joey’s actually Ezra. Yes. And I think some people, often the adults are nervous, like, oh, how are the kids going to go? They’re going to get really attached and they’re really

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in a struggle. They don’t do they? We just explain it to them. If you’re just open and honest from the beginning they take to it like water. It’s just so natural for them. It’s sort of explaining the difference of oh Tommy’s got two mums versus Ezra’s got two dads to your children have a mum and dad and once they’re told this from a young age they’re just like oh everything’s so new to me I accept.

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Okay, that’s the way the world and you find the older generations you turn out there. Oh, I had a baby, but he wasn’t my baby. They’re the ones who go, what, what do you mean? Oh, we don’t talk about that. Cause in their mind, they’re thinking back to the sixties and you know, love child. yes. Yes. See, I think that’s great. And that hence why it’s important that your sons had met Jamie and Kody during the whole journey in the pregnancy. So they knew who the dads were going to be.

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And they still speak to Jamie and Kody and Ezra and they still ask about Jamie, Kody and Ezra and it’s beautiful to see their relationship and be it all, my youngest actually asks more about seeing photos and videos of Ezra than my eldest does, even though as you can see in these photos, my eldest was not letting him go for the life. He just loves babies. I think now if he saw Ezra he’d be like, oh, it’s an eight, nine month old life.

16:03
I’m done with that. Yeah, so it’s lovely for you to get to have those moments to see your sons almost that big brother cousin type of feeling there. Yeah, I think they’re more invested and love and care for Ezra. Pretty much on level with they do their own cousins who only live two streets away from us, but.

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Yeah. And so these photos are at some different stages of just before they went home and then when you saw it is at six weeks. So do you want to tell me what you’re thinking and feeling in these first photos on the left? Because I have a rough idea. know those first photos on the left. I could not stop crying. My hormones just were absolutely.

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wild. knew what was happening. My hormones knew what was happening and they were going home that day. This was, oh gosh, I even think 10 minutes before they left, 20 minutes tops. And even though I knew it was happening and my head was ready, my head was going, okay, I need my own normality. I need to find myself. My heart was soaring, so happy watching them. The Ezra’s father was just…

17:06
still makes my heart so happy. But my hormones, I felt completely out of control. And I remember Jamie just gave me the biggest hug and then Kody came up and gave me a hug too. I think he almost strangled me with how much love he put into that hug. Kody I could feel the gratitude pouring off them and that did help. But my hormones just, they knew what was happening and they knew I was in a way cutting that cord yet again. And even though I was ready, my hormones just…

17:35
It took a bit of time. This is really valuable to hear because it’s a physiological thing our bodies have gone through, even though our head and our heart, we’re happy. We don’t want the baby. We know, but… Oh, I absolutely adore seeing him with his dads and it just felt so right in so many ways. You don’t realize how out of control, like how lack of control you have over your hormones until you see it firsthand. And I think that was 36 years and that was the first time I really felt that.

18:03
Yes. Were there any things in particular that helped you navigate that then? Was it cuddling your own babies or just some time? Cuddling my own babies, having a bit of time out, just accepting that this is a wave and I just have to write it. Counting down the days until I saw them again. And on the photo on the right, I think that was about three or four days into my visit with them.

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when he was five, almost six weeks old. So only two and a half, three weeks between these photos and see how much he’s changed. And it felt as soon as I walked into that door and saw them together, it just felt so right. And within 24 hours, it was like this wave of calm on my hormones. And the only way I could describe it is a wave of calm, just seeing him safe.

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I knew he was safe and knew he was cared for and I knew how loved he was because every FaceTime, every chat we had, I could see that. But seeing it over FaceTime or hearing it is so different to seeing it in person. And it was like my body was waiting for that moment. And as soon as it did, and I was in their home, so I saw the full 24 hours of all different stages of what they were doing as parents. And I just sat back and watched and it was just the most beautiful thing to watch. And knowing

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that I played a part in this. I think that that settled my hormones more than anything. I think from that point onwards I just knew I haven’t had to battle my hormones. I just knew everything was right.

19:33
Thank you so much for sharing this. People that are here listening, this is so valuable what you are hearing. It’s rare to have a surrogate talk quite like this, but also to have experienced the ups and the downs there and to be so honest about it because it’s the ride that we have to experience. I know exactly what you mean. There were times when I’d visit them and after I’d held him or seen them being parents, I drove away or they drove away from my house and it was like this weight was lifted, this…

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peace in my body that I’ve like nothing else that I’ve ever experienced that it’s like my body went all is well.

20:04
So yeah, I hear you and it’s like a ride that nobody can, until you’ve been and been a surrogate, you can intellectualize what it’s going to be like. But until you’ve done it, my sister, sorry sister, you know, it’s such a wild ride, isn’t it? Definitely is. Yeah. But who can compare to the highs and the lows? The highs and the lows, yes. Well, we’ll just finish up the photos and then this was the last time that you saw them. You came down and talked with Jamie at the Growing Families seminar that was part of that visit. And so, yeah, Ezra had grown up quite a bit more.

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so big now, just being there for that weekend was absolutely amazing and seeing what a wonderful job and it’s little things like that, you just know that everything’s right. It was just the most amazing journey and ride I’ve ever had and I just.

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so proud and happy about every step of it. Wonderful, as you should be. Yeah, your team did so well. You’ve built a beautiful friendship and created a beautiful life there. So Marlene, obviously surrogacy as an interstate team brings certain challenges. Is there anything that springs to mind that you want to mention about the types of support or the things that were challenging that other people could bear in mind if they go on a journey that’s interstate? So we had a lot of communication and I think that is a big one. You have to have open, honest communication every step of the way. The open

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honesty at the beginning, just there were moments where when we first started talking, it was like, I wanted to hear their truth before I told them my opinions, because I needed to make sure they weren’t going to change their mind, or they weren’t going to sit there and say something that I wanted to say to me for me to want to pick them, so to speak. And it was just that open, honestly, we don’t have to agree on everything, but we have to talk about it and compromise and I

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never once had a moment with Jane and Kody where I didn’t feel like they were being their open, honest selves. And it really helped us build such a strong relationship. And still have this strong relationship today. open, honest communication from the get-go. Build that trust from the first day you meet. And that will be a great stepping stone. Now being an interstate couple, you’ll find that there are FaceTimes, but there’s a lot more texts and writing.

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then there are face times. And the problems with texts and that is you miss out on a lot of tone or how it’s been come across. So if there is a moment of misunderstanding or hold on, I’m, I’m interpreting it this way. Is this what you mean? And we had a few moments like that and we always made sure.

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We carved out some time that day to FaceTime and get on top of it so there was no miscommunication. Everybody felt heard. Everybody was understood and nobody went to bed hurt. I was going to ask, how did you overcome it when you had those bumps? But it sounds like you put the face to it so that you could get some of that tone of voice and reassurance together. Yeah. And it is just saying, I’m not understanding this right now. Can we talk about this in person and having young children?

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coming up and buttoning in on when you’re typing. you know, there’s pausing between it is going, oh, the kids go to bed at this time. Are you free for a quick FaceTime? And sometimes it would be a moment of, okay, Jamie’s got a night shift, but we get a chance to talk to Kody. The same went vice versa, like, oh, I finished work at nine o’clock tonight. Can we FaceTime after? And so it is putting the, I’m not gonna jump to conclusions right now. Let’s put a pause, just a pause on.

23:28
Let’s talk about this in one, two or three hours, the decided time, and then we get back to it then. So less dwelling.

23:34
going, I know this is going to be spoken about soon. You have a time. That’s great advice. It’s really practical for teams to go, there’s going to be bumps because it’s relationships and it’s people having different opinions or misinterpreting or all of those things. So yeah, well done for getting on it early. And then I suppose post-birth as well too, the relationship adjusts. It’s now their parents and Jamie’s been the main one staying home for a while. And so have you found there’s some adjustments that have happened to your friendship post-birth? There’s generally going to be adjustments because

24:01
you know, out of nowhere, they’re gonna be busier. They’ve got a little person to care for. It’s a whole, they’re facing a whole new journey and one that we get to observe and watch and enjoy watching, the good and bad, we get to really enjoy that. But we’re not involved in that and that’s okay. And that’s honestly one of the best things there is about this journey is watching them grow.

24:26
change, develop their own little relationships and how they are facing life as parents. And I couldn’t be prouder of Jamie and Kody and how they’ve done that.

24:35
Oh, that’s such a beautiful thing to say. And I think for people listening that might be new going, wow, this team started out as strangers and now look at the friendship and love that has grown between them. Wow. This really can be possible in Australia. So yeah, I’d bet you’re proud of your whole team and as you should be. I’m so proud of you guys. I think you guys have been another shining light of how you can do surrogacy well in Australia here. It’s been a pleasure to ride this wave with you and to watch Kody’s just said in the chat. are really, we really are lucky. You’ve worked hard at it as a team.

25:05
And then sometimes people might be wondering like roughly how much do you keep in contact or like again being interstate? Have you got plans when the next catch up might be so when your boys might see like your sons might see their family again? I think our next planned catch up is August. I’m coming down for a weekend and I’m pretty sure I’m bringing my whole family for somebody’s first birthday.

25:25
Yes. So that’s an exciting time and I think Jamie and Kody have been fantastic. They’ve followed my lead with how much I felt the need to see Ezra in person and um once my hormone settled I found that FaceTime, my busy schedule, it worked really well for us. There’ll be days where I’ll chat to them off and on almost all day and then now I wouldn’t talk to them for three or four days which is so different to what it was like in pregnancy where I spoke to them every day. They were checking

25:55
in, they were making sure that everything was okay on my side of things, if I got everything I needed for that day. Where now I find it’s, oh how are you going? Just that casual friendship, the, or what stage are you at now? What’s happening now? And that’s…

26:11
vice versa, back and forth on how we are. And if there is a day where we don’t talk to each other, it feels natural and that’s again, just fits in perfectly. But we know that for the big events, for birthdays, Christmases, things like that, we do carve out a bit of time to FaceTime or chat. And they can call me up for my birthday and had a little FaceTime with Ezra, which was so beautiful and lovely, even though they were on holiday. We carved out time just for me, for that.

26:39
Yeah, and it’s those things that mean a lot is that it’s the time investment, isn’t it? That mean a lot for surrogates. Definitely is the I never have to worry or doubt where our friendship lays. And I think that is something that is so important and special. Is there anything else that we haven’t covered tonight through across the photos or that you wanted to?

26:59
comment on about your team or general advice for people at the beginning? ah Just be yourself and I find the right people will find you. Yeah, well there is a question. Was there something in particular about Jamie and Kody that drew you to them in particular? I think it was just they were different, they were open, they were honest, they were themselves and it was just a perfect fit and it continues to be that way. Just that we all are very different. My wife, Jamie, Kody, myself, we are all very different people.

27:29
And yet we all just fit comfortably with each other. That’s it. Great advice there. Basically be yourself. Everybody will find their right fit there. And that they’re the relationships that last. That’s true, right? Be it surrogacy or life, you’ve got to find people that you can be yourself with because surrogacy is, it’s relationship based and relationships are tricky. And so I think it’s about good communication, even if it can be hard work. we go. Well, everybody, I hope you’ve enjoyed this webinar. I reckon we’ve pretty much summed it up and covered it all. I feel good. Does that feel good, Marlena?

27:59
It does. Good, excellent. Thank you for sharing your time with me for this episode. If you’re finding these episodes helpful, please share them with friends. If you’d like to see the images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel for all of the recordings. If you’re looking for more individualized support, consider joining SASS, Surrogacy Australia’s support service, so you can be connected with a mentor and also with me to help guide you on a journey. You might think of me as your Siri for surrogacy. Until next time,

28:28
Welcome to the village.