Episode 109 – Kristen – surrogate

Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKie and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org. During the one hour webinars I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer. My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia

00:43
and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight mums. This episode is one from the archives, recorded in June 2023 and features Kristen. Kristen birthed as a surrogate in April 2019 for a couple who also live in Queensland. The husbands worked together prior to surrogacy, as well as Kristen and the intended mother, which we abbreviate to I.M., and they welcomed a little girl into the world. Unfortunately, the surrogate ship dissolved in the later stages of pregnancy and post-birth.

01:13
Kristin has had time to reflect on her journey and has some teachable moments for us all. For me, this episode was a reminder that we need to be having the hard conversations with our surrogacy teams. Whether you’re a surrogate, intended parents, IPs, or a surrogacy team listening, I hope this episode can be a resource for discussion for you now and in the future. If you’re looking for more individualized support or as a team, I highly recommend you join SASS Surrogacy Australia’s Support Service.

01:42
You’re then connected with me to guide your team through this complex journey, as well as a mentor for all parties, so you can be connected with a peer. You get access to prepaid counseling to have during pregnancy and post-birth, and we will be there with your whole team during this journey, providing the recipe and support so the relationship as a team hopefully stays intact and blossoms. I hope this episode creates conversations in your life.

02:09
joined by Kristin tonight to share her surrogacy journey that happened a few years ago. So let’s go back to the beginning then Kristin. So why did you want to be a surrogate in the first place? husband and I befriended some great people who we just happened to work with in our own workplaces and brought them into our family group and our friend, wider friend group because I was new to that area and they became actually really close friends and I didn’t realise how close until I was talking to my daughter only a couple of days ago about this and she’s

02:39
said, you know, mom, I really love loved I am she was she was actually like an aunt figure to me. She was cool. She was young.

02:47
We had so many great chats and I thought, actually, yeah, we’d actually did have a really good friendship and I kind of forgot that. But what I didn’t forget was seeing her go through IVF struggles and a common sense from surrogates, I suppose, is we see people having a struggle, making a family. We look at our family and go, oh my gosh, I would love for you to have this most awesome family. mean, sometimes we want to chuck the kids over the back fence, but we love them to bits.

03:13
And if we can help someone else have this awesome space too, well, hang on, I’ve got an oven that could work, know, tried and tested. And often it’s easier for us as surrogates, our family creation was quite easy and we sort of go, wow, how could help someone’s there? And in terms of, cause you birthed in 2019 and things started 2018, but you’d been friends with them for a few years beforehand through your workplaces.

03:35
And so what was the reason that the intended mum needed surrogacy in the first place? Well, I suppose in essence, she had a uterus that wasn’t happy to work and she didn’t have eggs that were happy. And I remember the transfer, I sat with her in, I still feel emotional about getting news that her transfer didn’t work. And I said, look, why don’t we give my uterus a crack? You know, this was in the January. And she said, all right, well, how about I’ll just go home and talk to my husband. And my husband’s so good. He’s like, all right, honey, whatever. If you’re happy, I’m

04:05
give this surrogacy a thing a go. So I didn’t even really think twice about it. If I could help, I would help, you know. Absolutely. I mean, and that’s, it’s coming from a place of love and care and seeing your friend struggle with her journey to try and be a mum. And you wanted to help her out and do that. then.

04:22
So you and her husband said, yeah, okay, let’s try the surrogacy team. So was it from there, then you started some of those steps that we’ve talked about the counseling legals? Wow. You know, it was actually just so easy, but there was no information. So we had to trail for information. The only information that we could come up with was through an IVF clinic in Brisbane. And they just sent us a document and you know, I’m an admin and project girl from way back, so I can read information and so is I am. So we just thought, okay, well, bouncing ball.

04:52
let’s see where we land. It just kind of happened. We had the one counselling session, we all flew to Brisbane for the weekend, saw our old mate and the one counselling session we all, four of us went in, had a chat and then

05:04
IPs had a chat and then me and my husband had a chat and then we filled out this horrendous tick and flick questionnaire that just went forever. And then we went back in and our mate was like, yeah, well, I’m approving for you guys to go ahead. And we were like, yeah, high five. Yes. I’m sure in the past, you’ve told me who that was, but we don’t need to name them tonight. But am I sensing there’s somebody that perhaps hasn’t had that particular counselor, vast experience in this surrogacy world? Was that your impression? Because we didn’t do any research as such. like when I even offered, I said, I don’t even know.

05:34
it’s legal in Australia, let’s find out. And then I didn’t even know that there were different rules in different states. So we’re totally winging it. And that’s kind of how I roll usually in life. I’m a wing it all boots and all, let’s go and see where we end up. And it’s part of adventure, but adventure was different. We thought he was experienced and he made no mention of having other counselling. So we were just like, okay, we’ll just go back and see my obstetrician. And my obstetrician was great. He found my endometriosis earlier and he was, I mean, he didn’t operate because he sent me off to Sydney because I was too complex for him.

06:04
Thanks.

06:04
he looked after us and can’t he just tap in them? Then it was time for a transfer. And so this was sort of January sort of offered and started the chats and then the transfer was July, I think of that, that same year. I do, I do wonder that if teams that know each other beforehand, sometimes just fall into that pattern that you’ve talked about, whereas the teams, a lot of people here tonight, I think would be either IPs or surrogates that have to go out of their way to find strangers to do it for. So by default, they’re already doing a heap of research and finding community and other

06:34
that have done it and learning from those journeys due to the fact that they don’t have someone. So yeah, different parallels there isn’t there? Absolutely, yeah for sure.

06:43
And so it worked first embryo transfer, is that right? Yeah, absolutely. Marina came out, went on one cycle and my daughter came with me for the transfer and said, dear, I I didn’t look at the doctor’s face because his glasses were reflecting things I didn’t need to see. But on that, your daughter was with you for the transfer. Were your intended parents? No, they were busy, they were at work. Wow, that’s uncommon, I would say. I think a lot of…

07:11
I had no idea that it was uncommon. And so at the time, did you be having not done it and having learned from others, I suppose you just went, okay, that’s all right, they’re at work. I’ll do the bit that I need to do. But yeah, well, I was like, well, you know, they’ve already had their donor and the sperm and there’s a healthy little MB waiting for a uterus. So let’s give this a crack. And I came along and then we went and had lunch and breakfast. can’t remember where part of the day it was, but we sat there at the cafe and had a chat about random life. And she’s like, do you want me to come?

07:41
hang out I’m like nah let’s drop me home. And I don’t know what made me think that it would be fine but anyway she my husband was like you’re gonna be okay I’m like yeah I got this just an MB going in my year so we’ll see what happens. And um Elle dropped me at home and I just sat on the couch then and bawled my eyes out I couldn’t believe what I’d done and I was like oh my god this is probably gonna happen and oh well I guess we’ll figure it out.

08:02
I’m a, you you just make do, you just get on with it, right? Yes, there’s no stopping that train. I remember that once that embryo transfer it happens like, wow, this, really am a surrogate now. I’ve got an embryo in me for somebody else. doing this. you know, that’s, that’s, I kind of went through some lots of crazy emotions on that day and well, well, you know, I’m going to cook this kid. said I could cook their kids. So here we go. I’m going to make a family. And so it began. I think as we’ve talked before about when you look back now, you know, when did the unraveling begin? Even that transfer, the intended

08:32
mum or parents, you know, not making the time for that perhaps or not valuing that as something that as a team could be a celebration. So then the pregnancy went on. And so how was that pregnancy in comparison to your others? I mean, you’re always older each time you get pregnant. How did it compare? Yeah, well, I was in my twenties when I had my two and forties when I had Cerebellum and I ended up with diabetes. Is that gestational diabetes? That’s it.

08:57
And I also had horrendous veins and lower back problem that actually is not corrected itself, but I’ve learned to sleep on my back. you know, can sleep now. And yeah, I suppose life is just life. just.

09:10
shake it off and you got on with it. But it wasn’t. was there much either support in physical ways to help you with the pregnancy or much emotional support to be empathetic for what you were going through? am. When I found out that I was pregnant and because we find out fairly early on that we’re cleaning this kid and it’s not as and the child’s, you know, further developed than the amount of time that’s been hanging out with you. I remember it only maybe three weeks and I went around to her house and I said, hey, how can you believe we’re going to have a baby for you?

09:40
And you guys are going to be parents. Isn’t that just so exciting? And I guess it was at that point that she said that I needed to have respect for them because they had been through a lot of trauma and losing them. They lost a baby at 28 weeks. Oh, no, she was 22 weeks. Sorry. And they’d had a lot of struggles. And she said, you know, you have to respect the fact that we’re going through a lot and we’re probably not going to be excited until we have this baby in our arms. And I was like, oh shit, I was really checking myself and I was having to reflect on

10:10
my own level of excitement and work out what my expectations were of her then, suppose. And look throughout the pregnancy, biggest flaw was that we didn’t get counseling right.

10:20
And throughout the pregnancy, I couldn’t articulate enough and I couldn’t say enough in a way that she understood that I needed her to come and see me and have coffee with me. And I wanted her to feel this baby move, like, stop my head, get your hands on me. Enjoy it. and hang out with me. This is your kid, not mine. And I want you to be a part of this. Like I’m just the cooker. Yeah. And you know, even when people have said, you know, gosh, did you want to keep the baby?

10:45
me, you you made this baby. I’m like, oh, totally not my baby. If I wanted a baby, there’s no way I’d be going and hanging out with my obstetrician. My uterus works. I’m really lucky. you know, my kids were 14 and 18 and this was an opportunity to make a family. And we just, even though we started out as really good friends, I think because she hadn’t come to that acceptance that she needed somebody, maybe that.

11:12
was what was preventing her being supportive and being present. And I didn’t really need any meals or babysitting or anything. But it’s that emotional support that as surrogates in Australia, we do it for that emotional

11:24
payment, so to speak, of doing this for our friends and wanting to celebrate a pregnancy and a birth with them. And sometimes I think, you know, the teachable moment here is that for the intended mothers, that they have to have dealt with their grief about needing a surrogate for their, next phase of their, to grow their family and that they need to seek some of their, private counseling on that to get to a place of peace first. Otherwise they do push some of these fears into the surrogate pregnancy, don’t they? Particularly if there was, you know, a stillbirth in like at the 22 week mark, getting to

11:54
that point would be very stressful for them because they’re probably thinking it’s not going to live because it didn’t last time around with them. Yeah that’s what I said to her you know.

12:03
This is completely different egg and completely different oven. Like my uterus has worked before. And you know, I actually thought a turning page for her disconnect would have been at the scan. And I can still remember going to Queensland X-ray for the scan. And just, I was so excited and emotional because when you see their face for the first time seeing their little jelly bean on the screen.

12:26
I was just so excited for them because of the love that I had for them as people and good friends. And I almost forgot that the vision was of someone hanging out in me. I was the same. I just looked at my IPs the whole scan, not at the screen. And so, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t a turning point. I felt really low and really lost at about 13 weeks. my husband and my

12:50
My daughter, everybody was trying to be supportive of me because, you know, I’m so lucky that I’ve got lots of love in my family and my good friends. And only a couple of close friends knew that I was probably under the weather. But at 13 weeks, I was so low and I’m sitting on my bed thinking, I wonder what Facebook’s meant.

13:06
there’s any groups in Facebook and that’s when I found the beautiful you and the group. Oh my gosh. I just could not believe that there were people out there who were doing what I’m doing and you know, the beautiful you and Simone and Catherine and Andrea like there’s just so many gorgeous humans that I just was, oh my God. So is it not normal that IPs don’t come to the transfer? Oh, do people come and visit? Oh, shit. Do you go out on dates and you can like come and do stuff once you’re pregnant? Like we did all that before pregnant. Yeah.

13:37
It was just so completely opened my eyes and then of course I found counseling and learned that maybe my feelings are okay to have.

13:44
And I’m not a negative person. I’m very, we put aside all the, you know, we do, if we’ve got a problem in the household or in our family, if we’ve got a problem, we talk about it, we move through it and we just move on, you know, we don’t, there’s no festering, there’s no silent treatment, none of it. It’s just, what are we, what are we dealing with? Oh, I’ll upset you. Sorry, let’s, let’s find a way to fix this and move on. And I just couldn’t do that.

14:08
It was just such a block and I found out through a conversation that I am so a counselor who had essentially permitted her to disconnect with me and geez, I tell you was pissed off about it, but can’t do much about it. that counselor was that because we’ve talked about this before. it was that, you know, I from that counselor’s point of view, she’s got her client there who’s struggling with this hot thing in her life and it’s causing her a lot of stress, the surrogate pregnancy. So the recommendation

14:38
was if there was any other thing in your life that was causing you stress, you disconnect from it if you can. You take control of what you can and you walk away or shut it off as much as possible. And that advice might be right for anything else other than surrogacy, but there’s an example then I think of a counselor that is not experienced in surrogacy, the one that the intended mum was seeing.

14:58
And you can’t, you’ve got another woman pregnant carrying your child. It’s complex, not only physically, but emotionally in the friendship. It needs investment of time and continuing to add to that friendship, isn’t it? And so, so that’s ultimately what happened, wasn’t it? That the IM got permission from her counselor to be distant to you. Yeah. And I was just so lucky that my sister-in-law lives close. My kids are close. My parents are close. My best friend has a magnesium.

15:23
Pearl, was great over summer in Queensland. And I just had lots of good support around me. And for that, I’m just so thankful.

15:32
Do know what? That’s probably an appropriate time to then bring in the photos that you’ve shared with us. So let us talk about that support that you have had because the photos we have here are not of your intended parents, but they’re of your family and your support. And this is really powerful to show people of the village that we have. Yeah, so it’s my village. My niece, my baby niece. And this was a year before we actually did the journey. The surrogacy. Actually probably a year before birth because that’s my daughter’s graduation.

16:00
Beautiful. And then what else have we got? We’ve got here with your son. Yeah. Do you know, I had to buy this dress to wear to his soccer presentation and it was the first dress I bought for being a big fat girl. Well, because you were pregnant. So yes, that’s right. Did you have like a debit card attached to their account or were you getting reimbursements from time to time? We didn’t know that that was thing. So when I bought stuff, I would send them a photo of the receipt. I felt so stupid asking for

16:29
$19 for a new bra or you know, 20 bucks for some more big girl pants.

16:35
Um, so I paid for blood tests and vitamins and stuff and I sent through the receipts. Yeah. But sounds like you and your family absorbed many of those extra costs. Yeah. Cause we’re aware of how much it costs them and it feels transactional when we go asking for money to pay back for our things, even though that is part of it, but we don’t like asking for money. It was just the worst. I remember looking at this frigging Kmart receipt thinking, I feel ridiculous.

17:01
sending a photo and asking for $19 reimbursement. And you know, they paid the $19.95 or whatever was on the receipt. They paid it back, which was great, but it just made me feel…

17:12
I know, I don’t, can’t even describe it. feels petty. so ridiculous. It feels like asking mum and dad for pocket money. Yes. You are a woman, you know, can run your own household and budget. didn’t need the 19, but it’s the cost of this is a surrogacy cost. So I think for teams listening here, you know, a more standard way to do it is that the surrogate has a debit card attached to your account, the IPs, and she can tap, you know, using that card. So there isn’t reimbursement. Please, please do that for your sorrow. It just sets the scene and takes out that angst.

17:42
So yeah, here we’re hearing, you know, firsthand experiences to why those things are important. Looks like you’ve still got a sense of humor here with your family. Oh yeah. Well, you know, whilst the disconnect was with the IPs, my family embraced the ridiculousness of my size and you know, the growth of Barb and my son called her Shani for Shaniqua. That was the name he gave, her inside name. Yes.

18:04
because both my kids had inside names when I was cooking them and I was like so what are going to give this to surrobub? Anyway so Shani was the talk of all the photos and the conversations. Because you can’t hide the big tummy in the room there. And not when you live in a small town and you know people. Yes they all know what’s going on. Looks like some pampering time here with some people. Yeah we all had petties and many awesome people in my life. And again for people listening

18:29
This is a common thing to do with the team. Usually, you know, your intended parents would come for a manicure and a pedicure together and to celebrate this. so I guess this is Kristen, you and your friends and family finding ways to celebrate you. I actually paid for everybody. I said, Mom, Kylie, Maggie, please come and let’s have a pampas. And the girls came and they wanted to pay. And I was like, no, no, no, this is really my shout. I love you too much. Yeah. And I just want to say thank you for being there. And my sister, you know,

18:58
Friends and family would door knock and leave me food and just such wonderful things. I was so lucky, you know, right at the very end I really struggled and I had to finish work early and my boss was sort of saying, please don’t come back.

19:11
until this kid’s out. Yes, well, I don’t know if that’s too much of a question then. you, you had to stop work early. Did you therefore need your wages covered and did they cover them? I did stop work early and that caused some friction. So I took my sick leave. They then paid the last few weeks until birth and then post-birth, you know, we get government money being the sorrow and the IPs get maternity leave. So I then took the six weeks maternity leave and the government afterwards. They actually

19:41
topped out for that six weeks for me as well. that was very, yeah, that was really fun.

19:46
Well, it’s part of it. then by that- Ten weeks. Ten weeks and two weeks. But by that, this point in the journey, you know, as we’re hearing that the friendship is dissolving, how was contact happening? Was it all through messages or email or ever on the phone or in person? What amount of contact was there? She came for a couple on a couple of Saturday mornings with her mum and just mostly by text. And you know how you can download, well, four years ago, you can download an app that let you can hear the baby’s heartbeat. So because they weren’t around much,

20:16
they didn’t feel this little alien or know about you know they didn’t have any connection you know I said to them if you want to tape anything send it through or so I was um I had the little heartbeat for them hoping that that would entice them and I was like here you go I’ve just sent you this little heartbeat this is your little jelly bean and you’re human but you’re gonna see soon yeah but they weren’t engaging was it yeah oh it’s what a journey this it’s not what anybody signs up for and I guess that brings us to the birthday yes that was I

20:46
I think you had quite a plan going into birth. had you been seeing…

20:50
one of the surrogacy counsellors, that right? During this to help you, Katrina Hale? Yeah, I saw Katrina last three months and holy smokes what a life changer she was. I mean, can’t beat the sorrow sisters, but Katrina was just like that little cherry on top. One of the things she actually said to me was, Kristen, this birth is actually something that should be hanging, where you should have that control over. And I was like, it’s actually not my kid. And she said, look, it’s actually your body. You do realise that, right? And there is a risk. And I’m like, oh, don’t be dramatic. There’s no risk.

21:20
get through this and she said you know need to work out who’s going to be in the room. Hospital done this before blah blah blah blah blah and I said yeah. So anyway I embarked on this little birthing plan and I typed it up my little schedule and both my kids were caesareans. Elder’s emergency and my son was planned because we’re living on a cattle station in the territory at the time.

21:40
I definitely was having a seethe. My plan was, so one of the things Katrina talks about is, you know, your head and your heart and your hormones. And for the sorrow in our head, absolutely no, this is not our kid. When the birth is done, our heart, we’re actually doing this to make a family. Absolutely on board with that. Hormones.

21:58
I had no idea what to expect. have experienced depression before, so I knew what the bottom of the pit looked like, which is why I suspected I was getting there when I was about 13 weeks pregnant. I could feel myself sliding down again. was like, that’s why I reached out to the see if something was on Facebook. So I followed Katrina’s advice.

22:16
And one of the things she said for the birth was before the baby leaves theatre, make contact with the baby because that’s your body realizing that you made a baby and that you’ve got an alive baby and the baby’s okay. And I was like, okay, I’ll do as you say. And by then, of course, I originally wanted to be able to express and to give colostrum and because I breastfed my kids. So I was like, let’s give Surrobub something. And by this day that had all gone.

22:41
And so the day of the birth, we were able to get rooms in the hospital, just sort of opposite. I was down the end of the hall, which was good. said, good day. My husband and I then went to theatre. And what I wanted to have happen was for when bub comes out, because

22:57
wasn’t my kid. I think that my piece from my my feeling every story is different and that’s very I very much respect everyone’s ideas but I wanted them to have the babies but I wanted to see that because that was one of the things Katrina suggested right so they came in behind all the action part but we came out and she had a little bit of a cry and then was taken over to my piece and it was just so heartwarming to see the thing become a family because I knew that’s what she was my I am friend.

23:25
really wanted. You did that. You made her a mum. Yeah, I did. then Bob came over and after they had a cuddle, my husband was my advocate. So he was there to help remind, but also the obstetrician was awesome. And he was like, okay, let’s bring Bob over and then we’ll get everybody. Everybody can leave together. And so she came and just was put on my chest. And you know, I went from being so emotional watching my friend have a baby. So when Bob came and sat on, laid on my chest, all the tears had dried up and I was just like, oh,

23:55
There you are. Gosh, I’m so glad you’re on the outside now because I was really uncomfortable with you this morning and that’s just exactly all I thought. And I just patted her and I was like, okay, well she can go now. Cause like I, my job was done. That’s how I felt. So, um, the doctor stitched me up after telling me my uterus had been banged around a bit and it’s good I’m not having anymore. And, um, when I got back to the room, my kids were there and my mom and, um, girlfriends and that were all, I had a room full of humans for that.

24:25
And my daughter brought the Surrobub in in the afternoon to say hi, which was nice. And I am coming, which was nice. And I think it was just really good to see that euphoric space of her happiness. And yeah.

24:39
So you saw them a little bit more in the hospital there and your family helping celebrate you and what you had done there. It just sort of happened. They went and did their thing and my husband stayed with me. And then the next morning I had a shower and the midwife who was helping me was like, so how are you feeling? And I’m like, actually, I really don’t know right now. She’s like, okay. So she suspected that.

25:03
things weren’t fabulous and my husband came to get me and we walked out of the room and across the hall and IPs were there with Bubbly and you know they gave me her and

25:14
I actually just felt nothing. It’s such a bad thing for me to say that I carried this little human and I just I was just like oh like I’m just the neighbor’s baby who I didn’t really know well. think that’s a sign of you did what you set out to do. You were prepared as all surrogates are the whole time for that baby not being yours. It was your friend’s baby and so that was a job well done in some ways that you you weren’t attached because as the head heart hormones there but your body probably appreciated having that cuddle.

25:44
I don’t know. I haven’t seen her since. Any contact? Only for the legal relinquishment counselling a few weeks post birth. Is that what it is? Yep. It was that counselling. And then when I was preparing photos to send you last week, I found some action shots of Bub and I wasn’t sure if being pulled out of my belly. And I wasn’t sure if they had taken on my phone or their phone and I wasn’t sure if they would have them. for the first time in four years and three months,

26:14
sent her the photos and said, I found these in my photos and they’re actually pretty special. I’m not sure whose phone they came from, but just in case. And she said, thanks very much. I hope everybody’s well. So acknowledge the message, but there was no photos back sent of. Oh no. No, no. And so that is just not what everybody plans. Just to sum this part of the journey up though, but were your husbands still working together at this point in time? Yeah. And so that they, oh.

26:43
complex. They made a path that they wouldn’t talk about homes. So they were able to carry on their day without talking about it. My family’s pretty hurt. And my sister-in-law maybe said that I probably

26:56
have a sense of numbness because my intention was to make a family right and when the family hurt me to protect myself I kind of just started backing away. So yeah you had to protect yourself then. Yeah. Yeah just one of the questions that’s come in is just to clarify um whose egg was the baby was it the intended mother’s or was it a donor egg? A donor egg. Was that from a known friend or an unknown donor? One of her friends. One of her friends yeah okay well we’ve got some time for questions. Christian I’m not sure if you’ve

27:26
reading the chat and a lot of love and support that you will find. It’s valuable for everybody to hear this story. So I guess how do we, you know, summarize that then Kristen, some advice? know, I can probably summarize it. These people were just so beautiful and they still are beautiful, but they just were still so broken and needed help and surrogacy wasn’t the answer. Counselling would have been the answer and the right counselling would have been the answer. And then throughout their surrogacy, we needed some, we needed

27:55
joint counseling, we needed a guide, all of that stuff that I sent you after my experience. I hope that every IP and every IP group and every cell and their partner if they have.

28:06
partner, sit down together with a list of to-do’s and make sure everybody is on the same page and comes together often. you know, sorrows, we don’t, we don’t all want the same thing. We don’t all have to be, we don’t all have to be best, best friends and be in each other’s lives every day. And some sorrows want to be actively in Surrobub’s life. And some sorrows are happy just to acknowledge that they’ve done something wonderful and can then just, you know, check in.

28:31
and again or whatever the case may be but you know and getting ready for this I have good friend of mine said you know you did such a really great thing Chris blah blah blah I’m just like well you know I actually four and a bit years down the track I still feel like I made a cheese platter for some

28:44
random people at the end of the street. And that’s actually not what I went into this whole experience for. And I really hope that other people get some good help to preserve their friendship so that surrogates don’t feel the sense of loss of mateships. And one day I’ll probably think a bit more highly of or a bit more excited that I made a baby for someone, but I just still feel so insignificant. What the future might hold for that surrogate, if she comes looking for you or asking questions when she’s old.

29:14
End

29:15
what, you know, how she reflects on her entry into life. And as you say here, you were a team that knew each other beforehand and the vast majority of teams in Australia are like this. These are some of the hazards that we would say for teams that know each other beforehand. Their friendship is at risk sometimes of doing this enormous journey together. If it’s perhaps rushed or without that ongoing support by people who are experienced in that world. Friendships are certainly tested. Even if it does all run smoothly, it’s still hard. But then as you say here, it’s, well, it broke a friendship.

29:45
And so there is the grief that your friends are now no longer in your life, let alone this surrogacy element of it too. There’s grief from many angles there. And as you say, I hope too that those listening will find some takeaways from this for their own future teams and that they can talk about and learn from that so that to maintain those friendships at the end there. Having a counselor or having that third…

30:09
who can ask the very honest questions and put some very honest things in a conversation actually would just be so beneficial. And I really wish that somebody had done that for me. And if I could ever do that for somebody, please just be okay to reach out whatever, however, because it’s really important to care for each other and to have respect for each other and have that mutual respect because you’re actually just making this most awesome little human.

30:36
for a family, right? You’re actually really just making a family. And I would have loved to have the experience that you showed because I saw all of those.

30:44
happy photos and I really wished I had that moment. And as I was reading out the information part of tonight too, I was very aware of some of the, you know, concepts that I was passing on to people and that that’s in best case scenario, isn’t it? And that there are some that it doesn’t end with a happy ending and that’s really hard and we want to try and not have this happen to anyone else again. and you know, it’s certainly not that I’ve used fault, no one’s really at fault, we just didn’t know that we should reset.

31:12
and we didn’t know that we had that there were cool people out there who knew more than us. We were just really winging it and you know that works for a lot of things in life but not for surrogacy because we really need to be able to be open and honest and supportive.

31:26
Sorry. need to be sorry. You’re a brave woman, Kristin. Thank you so much for being vulnerable here with us all tonight. For the heartache that you’ve gone through over the years and that your family’s been with you for two. I’m honoured to call you a friend and thank you for reaching out to me to say, I’m ready, Anna. I’d like to share this journey and have you got a platform for me to share it in? And I’m like, I think I do. This might be the spot. It’s probably hard to come in with questions after, you know, hearing. So sorry, everybody for things such as that.

31:55
They are thankful to you for sharing this. It’s a reality of surrogacy that sometimes we don’t hear all that often. I think it’s really powerful to hear when it doesn’t go right because it’s not all sunshine and rainbows all the time. It is hard. It’s a

32:09
hard journey, even when it is smooth. mean, as I’ve mentioned to some of the guys at the conferences recently, you get the shiny version of my team in this information part tonight, but we have had challenges. So Kristen, I had a counseling session with Katrina Hale a couple of weeks ago, two and a half years post-birth, to unpack some stuff that still doesn’t quite sit right and about what contact post-birth looks like. And it’s not quite how I’d imagined it was gonna go. And I get it, they’re busy with a kid, you know, but it’s trying to find, how do I bring that up if I want to bring it up?

32:39
Yeah, and you’re still navigating your fourth trimester, right? This two and a half years post-birth is never ending fourth trimester. Long for me.

32:48
Can I just respond to a question in chat with regards? Thank you so much everybody for being so kind. Somebody just asked a question with regards to how do we pay for a sorrows expenses? So my thoughts would be, and I didn’t know that it was even a thing, that you have a card attached to an account for her to use so that, I mean, she’s gonna think twice every time she goes to swipe that for a pair of big girl undies at Coles, but at least you won’t have to be going home, taking a photo.

33:18
and sending a message, I’m sorry, I had to buy some big girl undies, my other undies are trapped or I’m busting out of them because next minute all your boobs are bright, know, like how many times do they grow through pregnancy? I totally forgot about that. And look, even that would just be so wonderful if that’s if I had have had that. you know, my peers did, we all went to a friend’s wedding during pregnancy. And so they were able, they refunded me for a beautiful little dress that I bought to wear at the wedding. And I really, really appreciated that. So, you know, they weren’t they weren’t awful people.

33:48
They just didn’t know. They weren’t prepared for surrogacy in terms of the logistics it sounds, but also emotionally there too. I think as IPs too, trying to be on the front foot and anticipating some of the costs instead of before she’s even asked for them. It might be, you know, she’s experiencing some back pain. Let me book you in for a massage. What day would be good? Not let me know if you need a massage, but say, want to book you in for one or find out all the things that suit, you know, that you feel that you might need or, or prepaying for things like

34:18
Uber deliveries or meals delivered and just.

34:22
having that done and bits of pampering along the way, but also spending time together too, to celebrate your growing belly. And it’s all of those sorts of things. I wonder if it’s too much for, if it is too much for IM to be with the surrogate while she’s pregnant. I wonder if it’s too much to say, or if it’s okay to say, I’m not coping with you carrying my child. So I don’t want to feel your belly. You know, like I wonder if honest conversations happen, maybe they could be navigated a bit better.

34:51
things are on the table and that’s just how we deal with it in our family. We just put on the table but we just didn’t even have that. Interesting. So next week I have Katrina Hale on as a webinar guest talking about love languages and she would be she looks at that for surrogacy teams that if the intended mother is not a physical touch person and doesn’t like to be hands-on whereas the surrogate is and wants her belly felt and whatever it’s about talking about that beforehand to just

35:17
discuss what would that look like or if the surrogate is definitely someone that doesn’t want people touching your belly, know, knowing this beforehand and planning how to navigate that for each person so that it’s trying to anticipate as much of that ahead of time.

35:31
but certainly, you know, having ongoing conversations. I know of lot of intended mums who have been through grief and trauma to get them to the point of surrogacy, but then often when they get you, but when they come into the community and learn from others, they do get to this place of peace and then turn and embrace and be really positive about surrogacy helps them have a family. So there are some that do it, but we want to try and educate more, don’t we? So that that’s the majority of teams have that.

35:56
positivity there. Yeah. Kristin, is there any last parting advice that you’d like to give to any future surrogates or intended parents or just to summarise your journey there? Look, I think whether you’ve long term friends, new friends or relatives, all the best intentions are good. But having that ongoing check in actually helps cope because we’re not all carrots. know, like we do change and even carrots change if you leave them out long enough. But we do change as days goes on. So if your mind, your mind changes and you feel differently, there needs to be a

36:26
to share that and I think it’s really great this house is doing that. So thank you for all the sorrows and ips. I don’t ever discourage anyone from being a surrogate. I think there’s such a wonderful opportunity for some other people to cook beautiful families and to make families bigger and if you can do it, go hard at it. Do it with the support though. So are you glad it’s something that you did in your life? From the perspective that I can help others have a good experience.

36:55
I don’t feel fulfilled like I’ve done anything wonderful. I just feel like it is just a thing. The thing that I feel good about is that I’ve actually helped some other IAPs and some other sorrows along the way. think we said off air before in terms of would you do it again? bloody oath I would. I mean, if my uterus was great because I have the knowledge, right? You’ve got knowledge, you’ve got power.

37:16
There’s so many wonderful experiences for surrogacy. So if you’re 10 years younger and had all of this wisdom and experience, you’d be out there with new IPs having the journey that you’ve dreamed of. I’m cooking another 10, why not? See, didn’t I tell you surrogates are a little bit crazy everybody? But that’s a beautiful way to find it and I just thank you, Kristin, for bringing together your story and the teachable moments from it. It comes from a place of wanting to help others still. You helped others.

37:42
Make a family. We are proud of you. I am proud of you. Everybody here tonight is. Your family are as I can see in the chat too. You did it. You made a baby for your friends and that’s the gift of life. There is nothing greater. It hasn’t been acknowledged and celebrated in the way that we would hope and expect. We are here tonight to celebrate that even four years on and thank you for your time. Lots of love in the chat as you can see there. Thanks guys. I really hope everybody reaches out. Please do. If you ever want to get in touch with Kristin, reach out to me and I can help put you in touch with her. I will reach out and get real.

38:12
proper surrogate specialist support that’s what everybody every every says. Indeed finding the people who particularly those counsellors who specialize in surrogacy that they live and breathe and can help guide your team so that unique dynamic that really is surrogacy. Thank you for listening to this episode. To see the beautiful images mentioned head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents

38:40
head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SAS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.