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Episode 73 – Kim – surrogate

Kim started her journey in March 2020 when she first joined SASS. After joining, Kim and her family were fortunate enough to meet two couples through the surrogacy community, however both IP couples decided to pursue other options to start a family, After taking some time out to regroup, in March 2022 Kim accessed the SASS database and asked to be introduced to Lindsay and Antony in Brisbane, as they matched what Kim and her family were looking for in regards to being around the same age, a heterosexual couple, sharing the same values and expectations. This would be especially important considering they would be an interstate team. The initial meeting went well, and after spending time getting to know each other, in September 2022, Kim and her family offered to be their surrogate and help make them a family. The journey culminated in February 2024 when she birthed their son, Finn. Kim has supported many new IPs and surrogates on their journey and has been building up the surrogacy community in WA.

This episode was recorded in October 2024.

You can hear from her Intended Mum, Lindsay, in episode 74

To see the beautiful images described in this recording, watch it on our YouTube channel.

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These podcasts were recorded as part of the free webinar series run by Surrogacy Australia. If you would like to attend one, head to this page for dates and registration links. The recording can also be found on our YouTube channel so you can see the photos that are described. Find more podcast episodes here.

The webinars are hosted by Anna McKie who is a gestational surrogate, high school Math teacher and surrogacy educator working with Surrogacy Australia and running SASS (Surrogacy Australia’s Support Service). 

Follow Surrogacy Australia on Instagram, Facebook and YouTube

Are you an Intended Parent (IP) who is looking to find a surrogate, or a surrogate looking for Intended Parents? Consider joining SASS.

TRANSCRIPT OF THE EPISODE

00:00
Thanks for watching!

00:14
Or if this is your first time, thank you so much for taking the time to listen to Surrogacy Australia’s podcast series with me, your host, Anna McKay. My guest on this episode was a co-host on the regular webinar series that I run. Those one-hour webinars are free and will take you through the surrogacy process in Australia. You will hear from a surrogate or parent and there are opportunities to type in your questions and we will try to answer them. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org

00:43
This episode recorded in October 2024 features Kim. Kim’s journey started in March 2020 when she first joined SAS. After joining Kim and her family were fortunate enough to meet two couples through the surrogacy community. However, both IP, intended parents, couples decided to pursue other options to start a family. After taking some time out to regroup, in March 2022, Kim accessed the SASS database and asked to be introduced to Lindsay and Antony in Brisbane.

01:12
as they matched what Kim and her family were looking for in regards to being around the same age, a heterosexual couple, sharing the same values and expectations. This would be especially important considering they would be an interstate team. The initial meeting went well and after spending time getting to know each other, in September 2022, Kim and her family offered to be their surrogate and help make them a family. The journey culminated in February 2024 when she birthed their son.

01:37
Kim has supported many new IPs and surrogates on their journey and has been building up the surrogacy community in WA. She is passionate about advocating for surrogacy and has herself spoken at growing family seminars as well as on radio. In this episode, Kim talks about how IPs need to be active to do altruistic surrogacy. I love these webinars because I learn something new every single time.

02:00
This time I learned of a great idea their team had for how to check on Kim during pregnancy. Surrogates are notorious for not asking for the help they need, and it can be hard for their partners to carry that burden too. So her intended mum, Lindsay, asked for the contact details of Kim’s two best friends so she could ask them what other help Kim needed. I hope you enjoy this episode.

02:21
Kim, as I’ve said in the introduction, you’re a SASS surrogate. So usually I would ask people, how did you meet your IPs? Well, I know because I introduced you to them. Why did you join SASS first place then, Kim? SASS for me was a no brainer. It was one of my non-negotiables because my opinion has always been, especially getting into this with people that you don’t previously know that are not already friends of yours. This is such a big thing. And it’s not just me that’s doing this. It’s also my family that’s doing this. And SASS was a massive support system for me.

02:51
something I thought I wanted to risk by not having all that support in place and knowing that if I didn’t feel able to speak to my IPs, I knew that I could always turn to you or to SASS for that assistance. And a big one was also the counselling, not having to ask my IPs if I could go and have a counselling session and feeling like I had to justify it. I knew that I had access to that and I didn’t even need to speak to them. I could just organise it through you or through NREL directly. So that was invaluable to me. And

03:21
And like I said, it was an absolute non-negotiable. Non-negotiable. Yeah. We’ll go through the main journey that happened, and then we’ll come back to the fact that there were some IPs you were chatting to at the beginning first. So you had done those other chats, and then things didn’t work out. And so you said, right, Anna, I’m back. Share the database with me and introduce me to my IPs. And so then I did. And then here is the photo here. And I love that you included this in the photo that you wanted, like of all the photos that we’ve got here tonight. I love that you reminded me of this photo.

03:51
shot of every team that I introduce because for me it’s a magical moment because it could be, you know, that could be the day that people met and then they go and have a baby together and so but it’s hard to get everybody, you know, looking and smiling at the same time. Probably doesn’t reflect all of your personalities that photo. We were just so nervous that night too like it was such a big deal. Yes, do you remember it? Can you think back to how? Because I remember one of the first messages that I got from Antony and he said thank you for reaching out to Lindsay because her and I had been speaking for a few days.

04:21
or something before we actually had this Zoom call and it sticks in my mind and I remember this very well. It was a good, it was a nice night. Lovely, that’s a good memory to have there. Yeah so then you do the introduction and you start to get to know each other and so you’re spending time now obviously you’re person there up in Brisbane so…

04:41
So was that mainly done through like messenger groups or FaceTimes or do you remember? No, I’m horrible on the phone. I do not do phone conversations. A lot of it was between me and Lindsay and then when we kind of developed a nice little friendship, we started a group chat. Lindsay, Nancy, me and Jess were all part of a group chat as well. But most of the communication would have been between me and Lindsay just on messenger because I’ve got three kids and I work, I’m busy. So messenger for me is always just the best way to keep in contact with me. Yeah.

05:10
time you then met in person? Did you go to them or they came to you? No, Lindsay and Antony flew over here to visit us after a couple of months of talking and they stayed here for I think it was five or six days at that time. Being some time to getting to know each other, there was no pressure, it was just our first face-to- face meeting and it went really well. Good and so then I guess the classic recipe that SASS suggests is you know taking a few months there to get to know each other even though you’ve got the assumption that you’re going to be a team but then officially at some point in time the surrogate is often the one

05:40
some photos here of then what you went up to, you and your daughters went up to Queen’s Island, is that right? So to me, the whole thing that I loved the idea of surrogacy being like a dating relationship and you spend a certain amount of time sorrow dating and then you propose, like you propose to have a baby and that for me was just the most exciting part of it all. And I remember loving the show and Lindsay, we had many conversations about the show, married at first sight. Yes.

06:10
those cookies that I had these cookie cutters made and they tasted horrible but they look good was the top one that says uterus at first sight. Yes. Perfect. And then the classic Lex Baker baby. My kids were coming with me over to Queensland to do this official proposal as I call it and they wanted to design t-shirts. So they each designed, they did a picture and I had that printed on t-shirts and then we went over to Queensland and we surprised Lindsay and

06:40
think they were expecting it but it was very memorable for the girls and I at least. Because I suppose that that’s it when a surrogate starts out in surrogacy and the IPs start out you’d probably just start thinking about each other but then you got to meet some of their family and friends I’m guessing and it’s real.

06:56
It was really important to me that before we decided to become a team that I got to meet their friends and family. And it was also, it seems silly now, but it was big to me as well that I did this proposal in front of their family so that I could kind of be involved in the start of these two amazing people becoming a family. And that was a big part of it to me. And it happened conveniently because Lindsay had organized this, you know, last little catch up at her parents’ house.

07:26
kids were there and so they got along like a house on fire and to this day it’s still one of the most memorable trips that my girls have made. That’s beautiful and yeah it’s really lovely to hear it’s that you’re not just making mum and dad you’re making grandparents and aunts and uncles. Exactly. Yes that’s lovely. So then once you propose and then I suppose it goes on with the paperwork doesn’t it? The counseling and all of those steps so is there anything you want to comment on in during that process that was worth? I’m smiling like all these photos and

07:56
One of the symbols of surrogacy is the pineapple. So I went a bit mad on a certain Asian website, let’s just say, and I just perked up large and everything pineapple related. So Lindsay, Antony, Jeff and I all wore pineapple socks on the day of transfer. And my kids had pineapple t-shirts and pineapple glasses that they wore to school, which was a bit controversial because it was a uniform school. The teachers and everybody understood what the message was and they were all in full support of this.

08:26
agreement that Lindsay and Antony didn’t want to know the results of the pregnancy test until the bloods kind of confirmed at all. But I had spoken to the fertility specialist and I said to look if I’m going to test what would be the best test to use? And he said the clear blue digital are the best ones to use because they are the most sensitive. So I was testing every day from about day five and they were coming up positive every time but we couldn’t say anything until we’d done those blood tests. And that’s interesting to each team isn’t it that

08:56
Some people will want to know, some won’t, and sometimes it…

08:59
they might not align but you have to work it out as a team what you’re gonna do don’t you? Exactly yeah just every team’s different I suppose. Yeah and so logistically we’re talking Perth to Brisbane here to fly to them for an embryo transfer did it work first go then? First try yeah first transfer. Yeah. So we were very pleased with that I was quite disappointed because I was quite looking forward to my you know one night or two nights away from the kids is a bit of a mini holiday. Yes. But no we were very very lucky in that it happened

09:29
round for us. Just in terms of I guess you know this recording could be useful for other interstate teams trying to anticipate how often you saw each other up until pregnancy and then during pregnancy. How many times had you gone to Queensland and how many times did they come to you? Do you happen to remember prior to pregnancy? No I think prior to pregnancy maybe I think maybe they’d come here once or twice at the most and then we’re traveled over there for the transfer.

09:56
Obviously I went over for the transfer and then I went over with the girls just for the proposal. But after that they came over here to Perth to visit us more often. And then obviously I went over for the baby shower as well because that was something that was really important to me. I’m grateful that Lindsay and Antony made that happen for us as well as a team. Yes, yeah I think those things are important and I guess you talk about all of that at different points. And so yeah some of these photos here, whose house is this? And yours in Perth? Yeah this is our house here in Perth.

10:26
this photo to be honest because my five-year-old definitely wouldn’t have been tall enough to get that photo. I was wondering. Well I guess we’re getting to photos of birth very soon but anything you want to comment about the pregnancy in terms of that was your fourth pregnancy it gets harder as you get older? I’m very lucky I do pregnancy very easily the only difference I noticed so I’ve got my two girls and then I’ve got Alex my boy and he was my last and I noticed quite a difference

10:55
quite early on what I was pregnant with with Lindsay and Antony and I kind of knew it was a boy because I get itchier when I have a boy pregnancy I’m told it’s because of the hormones. It was interesting because it was one of the important things to me is I wanted to be there with Lindsay and Antony found out the sex of their child and we had the morphology scan together and I remember the scan lady saying to us you know told us what what sex the child was

11:25
I was videoing it at the time because it was just something I knew I’d be wanting to come back and have a look at. Just to kind of reflect on that moment. And remember the Sonographer looked at me and said, you knew that, didn’t you? And I said, yeah, I did because my pregnancies with the girls and boys are so different. So it was really nice. And Lindsay and Antony throughout pregnancy, they made sure that they were with me for the big scans and that was important. And if it wasn’t like all our monthly, fortnightly, weekly meetings with our obstetrician, because we went privately.

11:55
available on the phone and we do video calls so Lindsay and Antony would often be in two different places and so the three of us would be on the call and our OB was fantastic. Couldn’t have faltered him, he was just incredibly supportive of the whole process. He was really good. That’s good when you find someone who’s positive about surrogacy as a journey. No and it’s funny because we chose him because in all my Googling and discussions on the Facebook page I had read that he was experienced with surrogacy and it didn’t come out until I think

12:25
that we were only his second surrogacy team. But he was flawless, like him and his team, they knew exactly what they were doing, who they could talk to about certain things, and they made sure that they realized that I was still important. And that was big to me. That was big to me that I wasn’t just being recognized as a vessel, that I was actually my own separate person and they needed to make sure that I was okay as well. Yes, because over in Perth, they haven’t had as many, perhaps, as some of the Eastern states, so you’re a trailblazer. Yeah, and especially because we wanted to,

12:55
Originally, we wanted to birth at a certain hospital because I’d had a bad experience with this one previously, but he was amazing, the team were amazing, it couldn’t have gone any better if we’d asked it to. Good. And so then other photos here of your pregnancy. Who’s this other beautiful woman here in this photo with you? She’s actually listening to this right now, so she’s going to be possibly shocked to see this photo. This is my beautiful, sorrow twin. This is Rochelle. We even got matching surrogacy tattoos done after the births.

13:23
Rochelle and I shared so many similarities in our journeys. Like it’s phenomenal how much we have in common. Her IPs are also in Brisbane. She lives about three hours away here from me. We had transfers within a week of each other in the same room. Her IPs have the same name as me and my husband. It was just, it was absolutely phenomenal. This journey that we shared and I just, I couldn’t have done it without her. I really couldn’t. And she surprised me one day and organized for this maternity shoot.

13:53
to be done so that her and I had this amazing recording of this journey that we went through together. Beautiful. These photos, I’ve got them framed and they’ve just, yeah, I’m so proud of these photos. And see, yeah, surrogacy, never know who comes together. Did she carry four IPs that she knew before or who were strangers? No, so hers were already friends of hers. She’s known them for years. One of the funny jokes that she makes is that she actually dated years and years ago when they were teenagers, her intended dad. Oh, yes.

14:22
it’s a bit of a joke between us later on. Yes well it’s lovely to have that sort of sorrow sister nearby to ride that journey with you to understand that you know we know what we sign up for but it still doesn’t mean it’s all smooth there’s still hard parts of this journey. Yeah we were literally due within weeks of each other. Rochelle gave birth earlier than I did in the end but we were literally due within a week of each other so it was pretty amazing we got to share our whole journeys together basically. Wonderful.

14:48
And then we come to the day of birth. So what do you think when you look back at these photos? What do you want to tell us about the day of birth? You know, it’s funny because I didn’t have a birth photographer with my kids. And I think as our journey progressed, it became something that became increasingly important to me because I knew that none of us would be able to get the photos that were so important to me for the emotional side of it all afterwards. And I was so fortunate that one of my friends is actually a birth photographer.

15:18
agreed to do this for us and came over and met Lindsay and Antony before the birth and we kind of all discussed what we wanted and in the end the room was

15:26
I think in the delivery suite we had about eight or nine people, but it was, I cannot stress enough how important it was to have her there to capture all these moments that are so important that you’re just not going to be able to get yourself. And I still look back at these photos on a regular basis and it just, it overwhelms me to see that all these things were happening and you’re just not aware of them at the time.

15:48
And just to know that I didn’t have to get Jeff to get the photos out of, you know, the camera or get every, you know, I didn’t have to say, can you get this photo or this one? We just had somebody there recording everything for us. It was completely priceless. Absolutely best decision we made was getting her in there. Yes. And for any IPs or surrogates listening, I think that’s definitely something people should factor into their journey. This is often the payment for the surrogate then. We don’t get paid $50,000, but having photos to look back on for this emotional.

16:16
cup to be filled, so to speak, is a beautiful thing to have. And so yes, part of the handover moment and you made Lindsay a mum, hey? I know, it’s the photo on the left, the Lindsay and I had asked me, I think it was like the day before or something like that, if she would be allowed to watch the birth and didn’t really didn’t bother me. She could, both of them, they could do whatever they wanted to, it was their kid. I was just the one delivering this baby to them. And I love this photo, it’s one of my favorite photos is seeing Lindsay’s reaction when she sees her baby coming into the world.

16:46
It was just, it blows me away every time I look at it. And then that handover photo, that was it for me. That was the culmination of this entire journey. That was what I wanted was that photo, that time. That was, yeah.

16:58
I’ve got no words for that. That was just one of the most important moments for me that I wanted her to capture was me handing these two amazing people this child that they’ve wanted for so long and just being able to be the ones to give that to them. Yeah, you did it. I’m proud of you. They’re proud of you. It took me a long time, but we got there in the end. My fellow Surrogate sister, it did. And I think what you say there and people listening, hearing how passionate you are about that moment, I think a lot of surrogates dream of that moment, that that’s the gift that we can give

17:28
captured there in these photos. That’s why this is so powerful, important to have. And then hopefully as the little boy grows up too and he can look back on this story and see this story that brought him into this world and the family that were behind it. Do you know what? I’ve got these out of order, haven’t I here? This was the baby shower, we’ll go backwards in time. So this is you flew up to Queensland to be a part of that with their family. Yeah, oh this is the best day. I was so lucky.

17:58
there on the day. But these two sneak, these little sneaks here, I didn’t realize it, but they had organized a video that my family had made for me, my kids and Jess had put together and they played it up on the screen at their baby shower and getting emotional even thinking about it. It was how proud the kids are that I did this. And for them to have that understanding of what it was that I’d not just done, just me, but like us as a family, it was huge.

18:28
of like there’s all these people that are there for the baby shower. I’m standing there, this blubbering fat mess. And it was just so nice to be able to meet all of these people and you know, the family that this child that I’m bringing into the world for them is going to be a part of. And it was just such a beautiful experience that they made me part of that. You know, I wasn’t just the person carrying the baby for them. I was, I was not just a vessel, you know, I was a person. I really appreciated that they did that for us. Yep. It was cute.

18:58
hearing them be proud of their mum, it’s just this beautiful connected moment isn’t it? It is, I mean the kids weren’t exactly on their best behaviour.

19:06
for the video as you know young kids are and they made some funny comments about how they didn’t think I needed to do it again because you know I’ve done it once that’s enough I’m gonna move on now Kim but the kids you know they were such a part of this journey from the absolute get-go that it was nice to see other people acknowledging the fact that it wasn’t just me that did this it was my family as well you know we all had to make sacrifices to make this happen and that was the acknowledgement they deserved for it. That’s beautiful yeah acknowledgement even though they weren’t all there but acknowledging it that that’s lovely.

19:36
And because sometimes as surrogates we sign up for this because we want to do this but our family come along for the ride don’t they? Yeah 100% and my kids they didn’t have a choice in the matter you know like they just grew up knowing that it was something I was going to do. It was just a matter of when and who it was going to be for. And then going back to the births obviously you birthed in hospital and then obviously Lindsay and Antony were in Perth for a while. What was the time frame? Do you remember how long they were in Perth before the birth and then how long after?

20:06
about that. Yeah, so I was very fortunate. Lindsay and Antony were with us for a couple of weeks beforehand. The pressure was on because Lindsay’s mum flew over to Perth the day before my due date. And the plan was always that they were going to be here four to six weeks after birth as well. I think we all had like an afternoon tea together the day before my due date because my kids hadn’t had a chance to meet Lindsay’s mum. I just absolutely adore her. I think she’s one of the nicest people I’ve ever met. And so I love that she actually

20:36
got to meet my husband and my kids and we had a nice afternoon tea together and some of my family came over. I went into labour that night so he was very much on time. He stayed, well they were here for I think roughly six weeks after birth when I basically left to go on my annual family holiday and left them in Perth and then they left at around the same time. I think that’s really valuable for people to hear roughly how long people stay together when you’re an interstate team

21:06
some of the catch-ups that happened while they were still in Perth, is that right? Yeah, we had a nice few catch-ups. Obviously I expressed for the six weeks after birth, multitude of reasons. It did help with my healing, I feel as well. And then yeah, we caught up a few times afterwards as well. Just every few days, Anton and I would do some dodgy meet in the car park to kind of transfer over the milk and we’d just catch up like all together as a family every week or so. And then, I don’t even know, we know what it’d be now,

21:36
they left, we did a big catch up with all my close friends and family so that they could all meet this baby that I’d given birth to and this family that they’d helped create because I wouldn’t have been able to do it without them. I had a big support team who were all fully aware from the get-go of what it was that I was trying to achieve here and I had nothing but support even from my husband’s family, my family, my friends, everyone. Everyone was incredibly supportive of what it is that we’ve done.

22:05
big support network behind you there. And then, yeah, I think the last couple of photos here of some catch-ups and then your kids holding their son. Is that all the kids that you’ve birthed, hey? How does that feel looking at that? That was all the kids that I’ve birthed in one photo. And you can tell how they love having their photos taken. That was a really important photo to me. Just all these kids that I’ve given birth to, I just wanted them all in just one photo. I didn’t care how bad it looked. I just, I needed that shot. Yeah.

22:32
Actually, it was beautiful for my birthday last month. Lindsay sent me like a stylized version of this photo. And I’m gonna get that framed and it just means everything to me. It’s just so nice to have a photo of all the kids that I’ve given birth to together at the same time. Beautiful. And I suppose, I mean, you’ve got distance between you but hopefully over time when you see each other in-

22:54
each other’s state somehow. You can have more updated photos. Yeah, it’s actually been nice because Antony works, he travels quite a bit for work and so he’s come over to Perth without Lindsay and the baby and we’ve caught up. So that’s been nice because it doesn’t just have to be you know with the whole family, we can do it just as us and then I’m hoping to go over there with or without the family. Haven’t quite decided yet for his first birthday as well, February. Yes, I think he’s born on my birthday too from memory. I do remember that.

23:24
Is that the plan that then maybe take it in turns or I mean, you’ve got more kids, but that they might come over to Perth again at some point? In Maybe we’re very fluid in the arrangement. I think to me, physically seeing them isn’t as important as just the regular updates that I’m getting from Lindsay. And we do, I get them very regularly. You know, I, some, I, she messaged me tonight. I completely didn’t even see a message that I had from her earlier in the week. So we’re very good at keeping in touch with each other. And so I’m not so concerned about kind of seeing each other in person.

23:54
making sure that we just keep that friendship, you know, that so we know that we’re still a part of their lives, even if, you know, they’re away on the other side of the country. They don’t have to be physically seeing each other, just that we’re still in touch, that’s all. Yeah. Let’s go back to the beginning, Kim. I know you joined SASS at the beginning, and then you found IPs through the community chats yourself. It didn’t work out with each of them. And I know SASS was a sort of a non-negotiable. Was that part of the factor why it didn’t work out, or there were other reasons? The first team that I met,

24:23
were local to me here in Perth and we spoke for six, nine months, I think, roughly. We were done a problem. We were sorrow dating. They knew that one of my non-negotiables was SASS and they were on board with that. And then all of a sudden I got a message from them one day and they had, it kind of gives you time to reflect back on these things. So one of the questions I hadn’t asked them, which I should have, was whether or not they had anybody in this circle that had already offered to them. And after sorrow dating for probably six, nine months, and we were just about to propose.

24:53
that, you know, we’d go forward as a team. They turn around and just get a message from the IEM and she says, oh, just FYI, we’ve decided to go another route with a potential surrogate. We’ve actually got a cousin that has offered, but we wanted to give you her words, the benefit of the doubt. So that team ended then and there. The second team, I actually still speak to them. They’ve gone on to have two kids through great surrogacy, through

25:23
also ended up needing eggs as well. And given her age, it was not an option to try and get more from her. So it was easier for them just to go the commercial route because then she had access to the eggs and the surrogate at the same time. So we still keep in contact, which is really nice. And she’s kind of followed me through my journey and she asks me regularly, how we’re going. But that’s when I was like, no, I’m doing this and I’m doing it with Sass’s help. So he gave me access to the database at that point, I think it was. Yes. And even though there weren’t anybody in Perth or who was the right fit for you, it’s like, right,

25:53
across the street, aren’t we? Yeah, I remember that was a really tough time because Lindsay and Antony hadn’t specified that they were open to WA at the time. And so you have to go back and ask them. And it took like 24, like a good day for them to come back and say, yeah, they were open to WA. I remember the whole time, like sweating going, they cannot deny me just because I’m over here in Perth. So it was a tense time, I remember that.

26:18
Yes, and I was just so proud of you. You were just, you know, we had started chatting in 2020 and then, you know, we’re still ongoing. It’s like, I want to see this happen for you with SASS or without, but, you know, preferably with SASS and it did happen. So, yeah, we got there. Yes. And so just, you know, recapping your journey, were there any particular high or low points or teach?

26:38
moments that you can see that you know that you want to pass on to new IPs and surrogates? I think one of the things I always try and get across to people is that altruistic surrogacy, it’s an active process. If you want to find a surrogate in Australia, you have got to be active, you have got to be on social media, you’ve got to be commenting, liking, you’ve got to be involved with the community, you’ve got to go to the catch-ups, you can’t just sit back and expect that a surrogate is going to find you if we know nothing about you. And if you are in that boat,

27:08
I think SaaS is probably a better option because Lindsay and Antony, for example, are not active on social media. And I strongly believe that if it wasn’t for being, for having been a part of SaaS, they, we would not have been able to connect like we did. And so I keep trying to instill that when I’m speaking to potential, you know, to IPs and potential IPs that it’s an active process. You can’t just sit back and expect that it’s going to happen for you because it won’t. And it will or it’s for a very small proportion of people that will get lucky and, and

27:35
there’s a Kim or a similar surrogate at the right time, but that’s not gonna be for everyone, is it? No. No. That’s a challenge. Yeah, it’s a learning process and don’t just, you’ve got to take your time. It’s like you were saying before, it’s a marathon. You know, it’s not a sprint. It’s not gonna happen in a week for you. Even though it doesn’t usually take surrogates, I don’t think as long to find IPs as perhaps it did me. It’s a process for everybody involved. It’s not just gonna happen for you. You have to just take the time. You know, you put in the time and you’ll get it rewarded back to you. Yeah, good point.

28:05
For me, it was four years from when I first started looking to when I birthed. So it was something for you too then, wasn’t it? Yeah. I’ve learned so much and I’m not trying to do this as a plug for SASS or anything like that. I’m just so grateful to you and to SASS for providing me with that support. I like to be able to kind of give back to the community and I’m welcoming these opportunities to do this and to do the growing families conference in November and any opportunity I can. I’m all about educating, getting the word out there about surrogacy because I think

28:35
like me would be open to this, then there would be a lot more families that were able to be created. You know, I just think it’s something that we need to talk about. People don’t realize that it’s not illegal to do this in Australia. Yeah, you’ve been an advocate along the way being on radio and things too. I’ve got to go now. Rochelle, I haven’t conned her into it yet, but I will work up to it. We’re doing an ABC interview soon as well, so that’ll be interesting. Good.

28:59
Good, yeah, more advocacy. Any advice then for interstate teams, how IPs can support their surrogate? I mean, there’s some physical supports they can do, but is it more the surrogate having to accept that monetary help in terms of using the debit card for sorts of things without the guilt? Any advice on that? The biggest thing I would say is as surrogate, as just the type of people that we are, we won’t ask for help because that’s just what we do. We don’t ask for help when we need it. So even if it seems like we don’t need any,

29:29
We’re fine. Just and not even, not even saying, Hey, it’s okay to use the card to do, you know, X, Y, Z, make it happen. You just put that order in for them or order that pizza or, you know, order that box of HelloFresh for them or whatever, because we will not ask for it. And then I find that, you know, sometimes it means that our partners might be picking up a bit of the slack and that’s kind of a bit unfair to them, I think sometimes. So it’s just really important that be proactive in these things. You know, like we’re not going to ask for the help.

29:59
in our position, what would help you? Yes, and it’s that somebody thinking of that is helpful. Did you find that sometimes partner Jeff had to be that voice or was he a good person that they could go through saying what could we do? We actually did something a bit differently in our team. I knew that

30:14
I would not be able to ask for help. And I knew that Jeff would be in the same boat as I am. So very early on, Lindsay asked if it was okay if she contacted my two best friends, because she knew that they would be honest with her about it because they’re kind of a bit back from the process. And so she, I believe, kept in regular contact with them just to make sure that I was okay, that if there was anything I needed. And I know that my best friends are on my side, so they would not lie about it. They would not sugarcoat it. They would be like,

30:44
She needs this, she needs that. She’s feeling this, she’s feeling that. And that was kind of agreed on. I think that was Lindsay’s suggestion from very early on when we first did our like 250 questions of things you must ask each other. She wanted to know if it was okay if she was in contact with my best friends. So that was nice. Good idea, I’ve not heard of that one, but I like that. That’s extra step removed, but it’s that people that will be honest. Exactly, exactly. And it worked for us. Good work. Yeah, I was very pleased with that. Is there anything then for your own journey or heaven forbid if there was another journey

31:14
in the future that you would do differently then? Obviously being an interstate team is hard so if they happen to live locally but I suppose even if you’re local you might still have different personalities differences and how you connect. I think even being an interstate team though it worked for us because I’m not a person that has a lot I don’t have a big social circle you know I have a small group of very close friends and we catch up with them on a regular basis and I’m cool with that. I think it worked not being in each other’s pockets all the time so I don’t think

31:44
any IPs to dismiss is having a sorry get into status because that might work best for everybody as a team depending on obviously the team dynamics. Yeah, that’s probably the only thing I’d add to that would be you know don’t dismiss them just because of how far away they are from you. Yeah and I think then when you do catch up you’re then carving out that weekend or that time for those so it’s really dedicated as opposed to

32:06
My IPs and I live 40 minutes away, but that’s sort of like a quick two hour catch up from time to time as opposed to really carved out time. And I really liked that because it means that the time you’re spending together, it’s intense. And you’re talking about all the things that need to be talked about. And I think when we had one of our counseling sessions, Narelle mentioned, she said, I think you guys need to talk on the phone more, but that’s just not me. Like I don’t talk on the phone. I don’t even talk on the phone to my parents, let alone to my IPs or anything like that. So it’s not for everybody.

32:36
interstate team. I can’t speak from Lindsay and Antony’s perspective but next fortnight you’ll be able to ask them that. But from our perspective it worked well because they were here when we needed them to be but I also got to just breathe and have my own life as well because I’m busy. I didn’t want to have to constantly feel like I had to entertain them coming over for dinner just for the sake of because we live so close to each other and that worked for us and that was one of the reasons I chose Queensland because it’s a place

33:06
I went to university there. I lived there for 10 years. If I was going to go and visit another state in Australia, that’s where it would be. So Queensland was easy for us. It was an easy choice.

33:17
Well, I think you’re a credit to Interstate teams. The way you guys have navigated this together, I think it’s a shining example of how it can be done well. We did it well. I don’t I don’t have any complaints about, you know, they were here when we needed them to be. And I know that if I had needed them to come over earlier and to be with me to do, you know, look after the kids or whatever, I know that they’d Lindsay and Antony had discussed a plan as to what they would do. And even the fact that they had that conversation was important to me, you know, like I didn’t need it. But it was good to me that they had that.

33:47
outside of anything I’d said to them. Excellent. Thank you so much for joining me. On our YouTube channel you will find many other episodes as well as the images mentioned in this webinar. If you’re looking for more resources, check out the show notes for this episode and consider joining us for one of our webinars so you can have your questions answered on the spot. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time.

34:16
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