Episode 62 – Sam – single gay dad

00:13
Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKie and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surrogacyaustralia.org During the one hour webinars I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer.

00:40
My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight moms. This episode recorded in July 2024 features Sam. Sam is a trailblazer as one of the first men to become a single dad through surrogacy in Melbourne. His daughter Hazel was born in January 2024. It was traditional surrogacy, meaning his surrogate was also the egg donor.

01:05
They were previously strangers, but met through friends of friends during the first lockdown break of 2020 and are now friends for life. Sam’s surrogate is a private person, and to respect that, we don’t use her name in this episode. Sam is a regular attender of our Surrogacy Australia Zoom monthly catch-ups, and he talks about the benefits of attending these. He also started a Facebook group called Single Dads Through Surrogacy Australia, and shared some statistics about the babies who have been born, those on the way,

01:34
and those dads-to-be who are dating a surrogate currently. Their motto is, we may be single, but we’re not alone. In this episode, Sam talks about seeking ongoing counseling for his surrogate during pregnancy and post-birth and how mental health was a priority for them both. I’ll also mention that you can sometimes hear his daughter, Hazel, in the background. Being a single dad, he had to juggle her nighttime routine while speaking to me on this webinar. I hope you enjoy this episode.

02:00
Sam, thank you for joining us. Take us back to the beginning. When did you join the surrogacy community and decide this was your path to parenthood? And then eventually, how did you find your surrogate? Well, I actually did things a little bit backwards. I think I found my surrogate before I joined the surrogacy community. It was very closely linked, like it was back to back.

02:17
I started in 2020. I’d just gotten back from the UK right before lockdowns hit Melbourne. And I was like, I think it’s time. It’s time to start this whole fatherhood journey. Like I’ve been wanting to have a kid ever since I was 18. I wanted to live my 20s and like, you know, travel around the world in a circus. Quite literally. Yes. So Sam, what is your job when you’re not dead? I’m a circus performer and a circus coach. Yeah, I’m always doing something crazy. And I know from some of the Zooms, we’ve had you show us some tricks and things.

02:47
were a part of or organized, you did a unique thing with the community. Yeah, I did a circus ice breaking catch-up where we got all the surrogates and intended parents and all the kids come to my work and we just did like big obstacle course and played some games and we just, you know, we broke down those awkward like first meeting icebreakers I guess. And that’s a great example of how once you’ve been in the community for a while you feel confident to suggest a catch-up and and to use your skills to connect people. Yeah, it was definitely a moment of

03:17
like I feel like there’s something I can give and I think it’s a good way to like get other people to talk. Like I said I already had my surrogate, I was like I want to be involved in the community but also like just help people out. So I started looking into it at 2020. I first tried looking for like other single gay men or just other single people wanting single men trying to do surrogacy and it was nothing. I found one group in the UK of single guys, they go by

03:47
And it was pretty grim. I went to a housewarming party and I was chatting to people about how I want to become a dad and you know, surrogacy is the only way. And my mate’s friend was like, Oh, my ex-wife wants to do that. I’ll give you a number. And so the month later, she sent me a message. I was like, Oh, let’s catch up. And then we had coffee and started chatting and you know, just spitballed the idea of what surrogacy might be. Neither of us really knew much.

04:15
Like we’ve done like the brief Google what is surrogacy? That was pretty much as far as it went. And then lockdown hit and so we weren’t allowed to go anywhere. We couldn’t really see each other. We were still too new to be messaging each other to regulate. So that’s when I joined the Surrogacy Australia group and was like, what is it? Did my deep dive into infos on Facebook and joined a meeting, which I think you were at.

04:41
It was one of the monthly ones and I was at work and I managed to, because I was sleeping upstairs in the office.

04:50
because I just wanted to get out of my house. Nice. Yep. So yeah, I did a bit of a demonstration and stuck around and chatted to people. And we finished at like 3 in the morning. It was one of the long ones, wasn’t it? It was one of the long ones. So if you ever do a Zoom meeting, stay until the end, because everyone disappears. And that’s when you have those really meaty conversations. It’s not necessarily about surrogacy, but it’s about making those connections. Agreed. The one just last month, we were due to wrap it up, getting close to midnight. And then we were down to nine screens.

05:20
of the newest surrogates opened up and started asking lots of questions and there was quite a few variety of people from the community that was there and you could tell for her that last hour was so valuable and and people getting to share their wisdom and guide and it was just a really lovely vibe so yeah you just never know what’s going to happen right towards the end you don’t want to miss out do you you also want to sleep that’s it is all asleep or

05:43
keep on working on it. Luckily it was locked down, so no one was going anywhere. I was just going to go back and ask, your surrogate said she.

05:50
wanted to be a surrogate, she knew that that was something that she wanted to do and that clearly her ex knew that about her too. What was her motivation for wanting to be a surrogate? There was a few things, so she wanted to help someone out, especially someone who wasn’t like a generic family, being a gay couple or a lesbian couple or a single gay guy, ding ding ding, you know, that was like her prime, like she really wanted to do that. She also just wanted to like explore

06:14
like herself, like go through like surrogacy and just see what it’s like. But she also really wanted to be pregnant. She’s like, yes, the feeling of being pregnant, which is like, and to do it without having to worry about the after part. That was me too. Yeah. She’s had kids herself then. Yeah. So she was really lucky, both her kids. She didn’t really have any morning sickness or like all her like negative symptoms were quite minimal.

06:39
Unfortunately with Hazel, she had the worst like heartburn and like morning sickness every single day through the whole pregnancy. I felt so bad for her.

06:49
You just never know what the pregnancy is going to be like, do you? Yeah. And so she was ultimately also a traditional surrogate and she offered to essentially be the egg donor as well. Was that something that you had wanted or were looking for or it just that came as part of her offer? It was a bit of both. I’m single, I’m in the arts, the arts aren’t known for like any money. Traditional was definitely the cheaper option for me.

07:14
It was also like a one in a million chance, but it happened. And she didn’t really want to do all the like sciencey IVF stuff. She was like, she wants to keep it as natural as possible. So it kind of worked out really well. And yeah. So I suppose, I’m not sure if I’m jumping ahead here, but when you eventually had to do the counseling and the legals.

07:35
her being the surrogate and the egg donor, did she have to have an extra session to discuss the implications of being the egg donor as well to make sure that she was thinking through all of what that looks like for the future? I think it was all covered in the one big session. So we did, I did a one-on-one with the counselor and then she did a one-on-one with the counselor and then we did one together. Yes. I can’t remember if we did another one together. I think we did actually. Yeah. Yeah, so I think we did two sessions together. So take us back to the timeline a little bit then. So.

08:01
when you were sort of in 2020 lockdown and eventually you’ve had Hazel at the start of 2024. So what happened in then 21, 2 and 3? A lot of waiting. So yeah, 2020.

08:12
lockdown after lockdown after lockdown. So we had a break. I think, yeah, I think that first break we had a month. And so I was like, right, let’s go on a picnic. Let’s just catch up. I like binged as much knowledge about surrogacy as I could. Was like, okay, so let’s do things. Let’s get to know each other. And so we went on picnics and we like went to the park and she’s got two kids. So it was just like, let’s do stuff. And yeah, and we just kind of like integrated as much as we could. Yes. Then lockdown, bam, happened again. Is she single or partnered?

08:42
It was great because we could talk about boys. We were like, oh, boys, great. We got that in common. Yes. Had another lockdown and a break again, and we just went back to it and started chatting more and… Was she doing any learning herself in terms of, did she join the Facebook groups with the surrogates groups or was she quite private and was just mainly working with you? She joined the surrogates group for a little bit, but it wasn’t really her vibe. Like she was doing research, but I think she just wasn’t really interested. I get it.

09:11
is a bit intense at times and like you know it’s a lot of a lot of posts a lot of notifications and yeah

09:18
Cause I wasn’t on Facebook at the time. I had to rejoin when I wanted to be a surrogate. Cause that seemed to be where the community was. So yeah, I’m really passionate that we should be able to create community without having to be part of those Facebook groups and the politics that happen with keyboard warriors and things like that. But yeah, so I’m still a part of the groups. I don’t really look in on it very much anymore. Like, yeah, we dated for a bit. Then we were like, let’s get started. So there was a break. We didn’t know. We thought it was going to be the last lockdown. We had like six.

09:48
I think. I know poor Melbourne. It was terrible. Anyway so I was like right let’s look into finding like a counselor and so I was calling up all the like IVF at clinics and stuff trying to find a surrogacy counselor but because we were doing traditional they wouldn’t see us. They’re like no that’s we don’t do that.

10:05
I have to find an independent surrogacy counsellor. Yes. Which there aren’t many. No, if we’d have known each other, I could have pointed you in the direction of other names, but oh well. I ended up calling up a clinic and being like, well, who can I talk to? Because I need to find someone. It’s legal. It’s just about finding someone who’s willing to do it. Yes. And then they passed me on to our counsellor, who was Rita. And she was incredible. Like she just was like, yeah, let’s do this. Yes. Rita Alessi. Yeah. Yes, she’s very experienced in this world. Yeah. I was like, right, let’s talk to Sarah Jefford

10:35
get the floor rolling and it was kind of, we just were flying by the seat of our pants. We didn’t know what we were doing. Like we just blindly were like.

10:43
I think we’re going to do this. And, you know, four years later, we had a baby and was like, I guess it worked. Is there anything then you do differently if you could go back in time? I think if we did it again, I don’t even know if there’s anything that we would do differently. We’re reactive people. So if there’s a problem, we react and we fix it rather than being proactive and being like, let’s sort this out. And like, you know, in advanced, we’re just like, ah, there’s a problem. Let’s sort that out now.

11:05
Did you feel then that you had enough contacts and community to guide you? Yeah absolutely. So I ended up starting a single men’s group on Facebook, Single Men Doing Surrogacy in Australia and we ended up like, it started off with three or four members and now grown to, I think we have like 50 or 60 members but like 20 active members. Great. Yeah so we’ve been going for about two and a half years. We’ve had six babies, yeah, two and a half years which is pretty wild. Six, great. Three people who are currently like actively looking for agents.

11:35
and surrogates. And then we’ve got three people who are currently dating. So yeah, it’s like we’re just taking the world by storm. Yes, that’s what I’m all about. Yeah, proud of the people. So yeah, we’ve made a really nice little like tight-knit group of guys just like trying to do this solo. We have a motto, we may be single but we’re not alone.

11:56
So yeah, I’ve been using those guys by a lot to like just bounce off. So it’s because the complexities that would come from doing it solo are different to when it’s a couple. Yeah. And there’s no one to share the load, the burden, the load with. Like quite often, like I’ll be quite overwhelmed in the journey. Like before I even started doing like trying to get pregnant, I’m just like, am I overthinking this? You know, what do I do? The other guys would be like, oh, look, chill. You’re good. Like, you know, you’re doing everything right. Just remember, lead with your heart, which is the biggest one. Yeah.

12:26
Now it’s you passing on that same wisdom to the next generation coming in. I think the main thing we always say to each other is like be the best most authentic version of yourself possible. You know it’s true. If you’re faking it they know. So work it out and because you can’t keep up a mask forever can you? So then eventually you did all your paperwork and then I guess you got to that point of trying to get pregnant. Did it work first go? No.

12:53
Um, we, it took us about a year, I think, of trying. It was terrible. It was fine. It was awkward and hilarious. And like, I’d go down to the cabin, the caravan, do my thing, get my little syringe, put it under my armpit, go back up to the house. Is your stuff thing?

13:12
And we’re just like, the first couple of times it was really awkward. And then after that, it’s like, well, here we go. Here we go. We know what we’re doing. So yeah, it was about a year of trying and like just the, is it going to happen? Oh, it didn’t happen. Like the up and down is terrible. Oh, you get your hopes up and that waiting time from when you’ve made your deposit and trying to get pregnant to the waiting to see if her period arrives or not. Were there any months where you were pregnant for a little while and then had mini miscarriage? I don’t think so. I can tell. Were you trying every month?

13:42
or you took some time off? We had a couple of months where we missed it. Sure. Like, you know, just tracking your cycles and stuff and life. Yes. In the way. And for her and you, you can’t plan much else in that time because you need to be there for that window of time. I mean, of course, probably a lot of your money was being saved for surrogacy, but there wouldn’t have been much travel stuff in that time. So I was like working a lot. I was doing like 12 to 14 hour days, trying to like just cram as much work

14:12
bubble as possible. And so I was going over their place like 10 o’clock at night. Yeah. Meanwhile she’s like getting up at 5am for work. So yeah, it was a bit rough sometimes. I mean that shows how determined surrogates are in terms that they want to keep going and do this for you. Was there ever a time where either you or her thought, I’m not sure we can keep going? Yeah, we pretty much were hitting the end with our last attempt. We never officially said to each other that this is going to be the last time.

14:40
But there was definitely the energy of, oh, look, we’ve been trying for a year. So. May I ask how old she was while in those trying attempts? So that was what, 32? Cause we’re the same age. So 32, 33. So that’s still youngish egg age. Yeah. In terms of if she was an egg donor and had to get her eggs collected, that’s still.

14:58
good, it’s not like she was 42. Yeah. So it just shows that it’s just life, isn’t it? So you just can’t predict it. So when you finally worked, hey, it’s the relief for everybody. Before we even started trying, I did like a sperm analysis to see if I was fertile, because like this is one of the things you’ve got to check. And I had 0% healthy sperm. So I was like, yeah, all my sperm was deformed and weird and not working properly.

15:25
I think I remember you saying this on the zoom. So you went, you did lots of healthy things. Yeah. So I cut out like.

15:30
coffee, alcohol, chocolate, pretty much anything that had a negative effect. And then I was taking a bunch of multivitamins and eating really healthy, lots of leafy greens, all that kind of stuff. I did that for about two years. Did you go and get another sperm check? Yeah, so I did a couple of them and it was like a slow change. So it took probably about a year and a half to get back to full. And so now it’s all working normal. Well, that’s Hazel Show. So well done. And that’s a good thing from you too,

16:00
you put your body through to make this happen. Yeah, oh you know, you do what you can. It’s pretty simple. Yeah and it’s within your control to do so you went I can do. One of the few things that I did have control over so it was very easy to lean into it. Yeah. Have you gone back to coffee and chocolate and alcohol at all? Alcohol? Not really. I used to be a bit of a party like you know drinking every Saturday going out parties and whatnot. Being sober for two years really just like levelled me out. That and I have a baby now like.

16:29
My aunts have no desire to go party anymore. I don’t really drink coffee. Chocolate is definitely a vice. Yep, I understand. So I’m like, yeah, chocolate, that’s never going to change. I guess in terms of talking us through the pregnancy then. So she got pregnant, but you said she was kind of quite unwell. What was the distance between your houses and were you able to support her in?

16:50
any particular way? Yeah, so she was pregnant in 2023. So April 2023 is when she got pregnant. So we weren’t locked down anymore. I did as much as I could, you know, I was trying to come over and like help out with the wood chopping and I brought her meals and food and it kind of worked out that I didn’t end up needing to. She was like, she prefers her own cooking. She was just easier to do it herself. We’re both very independent people.

17:13
and it worked really well because my work schedule was still like through the roof. I was working the stupid hours pretty much up to the last like two, three weeks of pregnancy. So we were just like bang bang bang bang bang bang. We were catching each other up, you know, maybe once or twice between appointments. When we’re at appointments, because you wait for like two hours to have a 10 minute appointment, we were just catching up there as well. I was always like, if she needed anything, just give me a call and I’ll be there in a second. We did a couple of times, like she needed some anti-acid stuff, so I left at like midnight and drove to the closest

17:43
only like 45 minutes drive from my place. So it went really well. Yeah, well done. It sounds like your team navigated that as well as you could. And then as I know that she wants to be a fairly private person and.

17:55
and just do this, you know, a little bit low key. We’ve got some photos here of a baby shower that you had. Was she at your baby shower? Oh, no, she wasn’t actually. Yeah, she didn’t want to take away any of the limelight. Like, she’s doing like the most incredible thing and it blows my mind, but she just was like, no, no, this is about you and you’re becoming a dad and it’s your baby and I just want you to have a good time. Yeah. And so I was like, okay. So big party, had lots and lots of friends come over and just the sheer number of people willing to show

18:25
just really hot.

18:26
me. Yeah, I got a bit teary giving a little bit of a speech and anyone who knows me knows that that never happened. I think it’s a credit to you and the village that you’ve amassed around you both from your friends, your family, your work and the surrogacy community. I think I remember seeing some photos there of some of the other dads from the community or dads-to-be that were there too. Yeah, I got a good group of my single dads and a few of the other dads from the journey. With your surrogate, did you make a point of getting to know each other’s friends and family

18:56
and did she meet some of the close ones on yours or you kept a comp of it? Definitely in the early days we did. Once we were pregnant it was like meeting parents, so I got to meet my surrogate’s parents and meeting the parents and meeting my mum was like really important to both of us because you know they’re grandparents and yeah it’s just I know we don’t really have the same social circles and I’m very extroverted socialite, she’s not as much.

19:21
It sounds like you’ve struck the balance for what you do too. Yeah, we definitely like work to each other’s strengths as much as possible. And then that, I guess, brings us to the day of birth. Was a caesarian section, was that planned or emergency? So it ended up being an emergency C-section after an epic 24 hours. I have nothing but like admiration and just respect for my surrogate. She is a beast. She’s so strong. Yeah, I just, you know, she was trying to express milk while in labour for me.

20:29
there in the hospital to help with her labor or just midwives? So she had midwives, her mum was around though so her mum was bouncing to and from the hospital to help her and whatnot.

20:39
And then yes, then you become a dad, hey? And you’ve got some photos of you now with your little girl. You had some newborn photos done here. Yeah, so she was, I think, three or four days old with this one. Yeah, she has gotten so much bigger. Oh, she’s awake. Talking about you, miss. And then photos of you being dad, hey? Being a dad is honestly, it’s worth all the pain, all the struggles, all the sacrifices. Like, I gave up a lot of my friendships and social networking just because I went from essentially party boy

21:09
like social circus boy to I’m working full time, I don’t have time for anyone, my goal is to become a dad. That’s a bit of a shift from my younger friends who are all like mid-20s. It was a bit of an adjustment but it was so worth it. Beautiful to hear. I worked my butt off and you know I was definitely burnt out but again wouldn’t change it. She’s a very wanted little girl. Yeah.

21:32
Did you know that you were having a girl or that was a surprise on the day? So we found out pretty much as soon as we could. So we did a DNA test just to make sure that Hazel was my baby. Okay. Just like might have thought like make sure just in case. I don’t know if we needed to do that for legal stuff or not.

21:49
So she had a new partner and there was a crossover? I think, yeah, she had a partner. But anyway, we’ve got the paperwork and that was really helpful, actually, having the paternity test because it was just another piece of admin that the admin people could say, oh, he is the father. Yeah, that’s true. Yeah, that’s a good point, particularly for traditional, because if it’s gestational, it’s an embryo from a lab, they know. But in traditional with home insemination, yeah, a little bit of extra security there. So there we go. And so now Miss Hazel’s a few months old and you’re into the rhythm of it all. Yeah, absolutely.

22:19
in teething craziness. Yes indeed. So we were talking before about what things have you learned from this journey and what things would you like to pass on to people who are at the beginning? I think the first thing is it’s a marathon.

22:31
ace yourself. It is like my journey was relatively quick. I’m going to become a dad. I want to do surrogacy and then ban my family surrogate. It still took us what like three and a half years. Like take your time. It’s going to take time. Any advice on that then for people? How do they find their own surrogate? You have to be open and honest and talk about it with anyone and everyone. I didn’t shut up. Shut up.

22:51
to like for the whole time I was just like I’m going to try to find a surrogate you know I I spoke a lot about every piece of information I found so I’d research I’d be like what like surrogates have to do PRPs and and what’s that and just like just talking to anyone and everyone about anything um a lot of people I’ve spoken to um are nervous about like you know what if I tell someone and they don’t like it and just being nervous in general about telling people that they’re trying to find a surrogate they’re going to find out eventually anyway just get nipped in the button

23:21
It’s not a journey for the timid. You’ve got to get out there and just do it. The greater the risk, the bigger the reward. You’re giving me some great one-liners here. Did you face much negativity from, in all of that, of the telling people?

23:33
Or was it more just that they were new to it and so they were unsure? A little bit of both. My parents are both quite like religious. So telling my mum and my dad was definitely scary. But I decided to opt for the give them as much notice as possible route rather than bombard them with I’m having a baby. And I’m so glad I did. The more notice they had, the more time they had to adjust and adapt. And my mum, she was mostly just worried for me. Like she didn’t want me to get hurt or for something to go wrong. She was also just nervous because I’m single. Like, I had faith.

24:03
myself so that was all that mattered. But I ended up sending her a copy of More Than Just a Baby, the surrogacy book that Sarah Jefford wrote and I just posted that to her and it arrived in the mail and she opened it up and said, oh I think this is right for you Sam. I was like no it’s for you, but you need to read it. And it was really good because she just read through the whole thing and it answered a lot of her questions and then she called me up like about a week later and was like, so I read it, I understand a lot more than I did now.

24:27
But I’m still worried. I was like, that’s okay, you’re allowed to be worried. I had that too. I think sometimes surrogates’ families are often worried because they know the complexities of pregnancy. Whereas the parents of the guys I was caring for were joyful. But yes, I suppose being a single dad too and being something new for them, they were a bit nervous about that. My surrogate’s parents were also a bit nervous. It was actually something that both me and my surrogate bonded over, was the fact that our parents were a bit like, ah! They both warmed up with time.

24:53
Okay, that’s great. In questions, Jared has typed in, and not only has he said, thank you for sharing, but in regards to your surrogate, do you know how she spoke to her own children about surrogacy and how she might’ve explained it, especially given the traditional aspect and the genetic connection? Were hers younger kids or pre-teens or teens? There were pre-teens, so seven and 10, around that age. She was just really open and honest about everything. We’ve always said that from day dot, we’re just gonna be honest and, hey.

25:23
clear this is what we want to do you know your input is very important to us but also we really want to do this. Since birth the youngest one is very very keen and loves hazel the eldest one is still a bit like standoffish the young and give it time. It’s a lot to process I think the biggest thing is like we’re different like we’re not like a normal family now and just processing the fact that we are now officially a different type of family setup.

25:47
is a bit daunting I think. Yeah it’s showing them that families can be made in lots of different ways there. In questions Lyle has typed in of course saying well done Sam a hetero single male he is who would love to be a dad but living rural makes it hard and even in sperm donor pathways too. His question is what was your Facebook page name again for the single IP dads? Single dads through Surrogacy Australia. Single dads through Surrogacy Australia. I’ll make sure I mention that in

26:17
I’m glad you are at this webinar, Lyle Sam. In my three years of running these webinars, Sam is the first single man I’ve had on. I’ve had one single mum, Hannah, and I’ve had Sam as my single man. So this episode, I hope, can become a resource for new single guys as well. And what other advice do you have in terms of navigating a surrogacy journey? So giving each other space for me and my surrogate was really important during…

26:40
the pregnancy and afterwards as well. Just like rate each other’s energies and we were very blunt with each other. So I’d be like, hey, can I come over? I’d love to hang out. And she’d be like, not today. Okay, cool. And then vice versa, like, you know, she’d be like, hey, she’ll be like trying to organize something. I’m actually, I’m really busy. I’ve got a whole bunch of work and I’m burnt out. Can we do this another time? And then after birth, it was weird because I really wanted to make sure that I was like being as present as I could be. Also having a newborn. It was a little bit of like,

27:10
I was going over there mostly to collect milk, which was a really good way for us to navigate it. But also, if I just didn’t have any energy, I was like, can you just drop milk over here? And she’d be like, yeah, sure. Or she’d be like, actually, I don’t have the emotional capacity to come over. I’m too sad. So we would send someone else. So either I send someone.

27:30
to her place or she sent someone from her place to my place. Okay. And we’re just like really aware of each other’s personal space. Without saying that, I was really nervous as an IP that, you know, like I was going to do something or say something or, you know, um, and lose the opportunity of actually having my daughter. Obviously all in my head. Um, I also just want to be a dad with my, with my baby. Yeah. So she was really aware of that and I was really aware of her need to still have contact and she wants to get the baby cuddles and it’s good for her.

28:00
to like go through the whole process. Having those baby cuddles in the first couple of weeks, it’s important. Yeah, when was having those emotional days, did she seek any extra support or counseling or was it that she needed some cuddles with Hazel or what helped fix it? It was a bit of both. We got onto counseling pretty quickly and we’re both very aware of like mental health. So it was like nip it in the bud before it gets bad. So yeah, she was doing counseling sessions for…

28:25
couple of months. Was she doing any during pregnancy or mainly post-birth? She did a couple during pregnancy, mostly it was after. Back with the same counselor or a different one? Same counselor. Good. I think it was good having consistency. Yes and someone that understands the complexities of you’re not sad because you want to keep the baby. The end of a journey and also your body might just be adjusting. She wasn’t expecting to have all the emotions of feeling like a mum.

28:50
And it’s like, it’s such a complex thing to navigate. And so we just did it as delicately as we could while respecting each other’s space and need for privacy. I’ll come over with Hazel and should have some cuddles and should have a bit of a cry and then she’d be like, okay, we’re good. Okay, good. And then we can move on, you know. Yeah, and now.

29:08
nearly six months post-birth-ish. How often do you see each other now? We’ve had a big big break because I’ve I went away up to Sydney for a month and then I came back for three weeks or four weeks but she was sick so she couldn’t actually see Hazel and then I’ve just come back up to Sydney for a month so but when we get back I’m like going to straight back there. I try and visit at least once every fortnight minimum at the moment.

29:30
But also we’re both aware of the fact that we want to live our lives and do things and you know she’s busy, I’m busy. So you keep in touch now with messages and photos I guess? Yeah. We’re definitely trying to balance it all out as much as we can. Well sounds like you’re doing a great job team having navigated this. You did it Sam, you did it. Wild ride. Indeed it is right. Is there a ride number two? I’m never sure if I’m allowed to ask. It’s on the table but we’re still six months in with this one so we will see how it goes.

30:00
It’s on the table. It’s figuring out finances is a big part of it. I can’t work 14 hour days, seven days a week. And you’re not in an industry like me with teaching or health where you get paid maternity leave I’d imagine. No, you don’t. Save it up. So okay, because some surrogates are like, no, I’m just one and done. Anyway, interesting that you… I’d love to like, my dream would be to have four kids. I grew up in a big family. So I’m like, I’d love to have four kids. But also, I’m a bit of a realist. And the fact that I got one, I’m just like, over the moon. Beautiful.

30:30
you

30:30
Sam, any last parting advice that you want to… So I found throughout my journey, a lot of the battle was with myself. Like I would catastrophize and essentially find problems that weren’t there. I’d be like, oh, when we were, especially when we were trying, be like, oh, we’re, we’re not doing it every single day. So, you know, come and strong. It’s like, no, I’ll speak to my friends and they’ll level me out a lot. So, oh, hang on. I’m just gonna put Hazel down for a sec. Yep.

31:00
their advice and trying not to bother my surrogate with my insecurities. That’s the worst thing you could do is just be like, ugh.

31:08
Because there’s an image out there in the community where it’s like concentric circles and your surrogate’s in the middle and then you’re the circle around her. But then you’ve got circles around you and the idea is that you can only dump out so that you need to make sure that you’ve got support networks. So sometimes that comes in the form of a partner if you’ve got one, but in your case, it’s friends and family who are all people in the surrogacy community that understand what you’re going through and can say, yeah, this is tough, but also help the anxious brain sometimes if it’s catastrophizing. Yeah. So my boss is one of my best friends and she’s a very like matter of family.

31:38
like look at the facts kind of person and so should be quite often Sam you’re thinking too much stop thinking you know it’s not helpful yeah so yeah just like try and stay sane and don’t react like often emotion and talk things through with other people before you try and address a situation and I think that saved like so save me from making some terrible terrible blunders multiple times yes can you think of an example it’s just like it’s in the heat of the moment it’s just like it’ll be random little things

32:08
you’re saying in the year of trying and then you second guess every time you’ve tried what am I doing wrong it’s me it’s my fault what are we not doing right it’s it would play a huge mental game on you there yeah um like so i made him like a big bunch of meal prep i was like am i being too over the top am i being too needy wanting her to eat at all like just all this stuff that is just ridiculous because my biggest fear was not providing enough support or making my surrogate feel like

32:37
That was like one of my biggest, I had nightmares about it. So yeah, making sure that she was looked after was always my top, top goal. And do you think she’s come away feeling that? I hope so. I think so. As Sam, we’re very open and honest with each other.

32:51
And we work well with each other. We definitely match each other’s vibes. Good. Well, that’s wonderful. It sounds like you’ve done a great job as a team, particularly being two single parents now, too. I think you sound like you’re a good fit for each other. But a really great example, not only just of a single dad, but how to navigate it with somebody that’s quite private and how you can still celebrate your journey among your own friends and family and respect her needs and wishes there. Yeah, well done. Yeah, thanks. Thank you for listening to this episode.

33:18
To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.