Episode 51 – Bell – straight mum

Welcome to our podcast series with Surrogacy Australia. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen and in turn for helping us spread awareness and appreciation for surrogacy. I’m your host Anna McKie and these recordings are from a regular webinar series that I run. You can find upcoming dates on our website at surr During the one hour webinars I will walk you through the surrogacy process in Australia and you can type in questions for us to answer.

00:40
My co-hosts have all done surrogacy in Australia and they alternate between surrogates, gay dads and straight mums. This episode, recorded in April 2024, features Belle. Belle and her husband Kieran, from regional South Australia, became parents to their son Emmett in November 2023. Emmett was carried by surrogate Helena, who was previously a stranger, and was also created using donor eggs from one of Belle’s friends.

01:10
and 13 miscarriages as a result of antiphospholipid syndrome, which is an immune condition where the blood is too thick. So Belle is a very determined mother. We talked about how Belle is an advocate for counseling. The more support you can get, the better. Care packages for her surrogate, Helena, during pregnancy. Spending time with Helena’s kids, because as Belle says, you’re all part of the family now, it takes a village. Open communication and not holding back on any topic.

01:37
what expenses were covered during pregnancy and loss of wages, and when a surrogate splits with her partner during pregnancy and the implications of that. I really enjoyed this episode. Belle is bold, funny, relaxed, but also so determined to be a mom. I had some big laughs in this episode and I hope you have some too, as well as bringing hope to those at the beginning of their journey. Belle, thank you for joining us. We’re gonna go through some photos of your journey shortly, but I guess take it at the beginning.

02:05
Why did you need a surrogate in the first place and an egg donor eventually in the end and how did you find them?

02:10
I was diagnosed after 13 miscarriages and two stillborns. I had an autoimmune disease disorder called antiphospholipid syndrome. It basically means my blood’s too thick. You can have anti-D injections and stuff like that to try and stop blood clots and try to keep the baby in there, but my body was still rejecting them. It just wasn’t for me and in the end a specialist gynaecologist said, this is getting far too dangerous for you with…

02:37
the end results. It’s putting too much stress on your body. You need to look into other avenues like foster adoption or have you thought about surrogacy? And I said, I’ve looked into foster care or adoption, but wasn’t ticking all the right boxes for that because of different disorders and stuff I have. So I looked into surrogacy and that was a go for me. So yeah. For your own journey to motherhood when you’re having the stillbirths and miscarriages, roughly

03:03
over how many year period was this? That was over a 20 year period. Wow. I just kept going because I really wanted to be a mom. Of course. Wow. And the things, yeah, the toll that takes on your body, physically, but also emotionally and financially as well. A lot of counseling. You’re an advocate for it then? Yeah.

03:22
certainly yeah. The more support you can get the better. Absolutely yeah you feel less alone sometimes when you feel hurt. That’s right yeah. So before I actually started the surrogacy process I made sure that I was mentally strong enough and I was okay in myself to know that I was going to need an egg donor as well as a surrogate. If there’s some level of grief then as a potential mother to go okay I’m not going to carry and it’s not genetically mine is that the stuff?

03:51
genetics on to my child. He, Emmett, is still my child regardless. Like he’s mine. We’ve still got that bond and love there. So it really didn’t matter. I didn’t want to pass my genetics on to him for him to have maybe future autoimmune disorders himself. So I wanted him to be able to be the healthiest.

04:10
possible that you can do and that’s what you should do as a parent. You know, make sure your child is happy and healthy and safe. So, obviously your friends and family knew for many, many years of your challenges. And then eventually the, okay, we’re calling that part of it quits. We now did you, sorry, did you have to share that word with your friends and family? Is that how you got the word out there or? It sort of came to like, do you want me to have a baby for you? And I was like, excuse me, what now?

04:38
It’s like I’m willing to have one. I don’t want the baby at the end. You can just take it.

04:43
There was also some other jokes of let’s just go to the hospital and steal one for you. And I was like, yeah, no, I could never do that to another mother, you know? No. Um, so we just said, like I said, yes, I need to look for one. Not sure how I go about it because it was still all new to me. Um, I said, I might just put it out into Facebook land and hope for the best. And I had a friend come to me for my first surrogate. That was a failed surrogate in the end because there was two failed, um, cycles. And then we stopped.

05:13
issue so we it was just a no go. Came to me first to say we’ll try we’ll give it a go and we did that process and that was disheartening but everything happens for a reason it was meant to stop that way and give us a break and a chance to you know regroup and and all of that and I just I think it was after like maybe two three weeks I was like I’m not ready to stop. I said I’m getting too old I don’t want to leave it much longer I said I’m going to put it back out into Facebook land and within not even a day a mutual friend said

05:43
on a surrogacy community page, saying she wanted to be a surrogate and then connected us that way. So, and it turns out like eight years ago, I actually helped babysit and raise her first daughter but had never met her mom because it was through her ex-boyfriend. Yeah, small world. It’s very Adelaide for those that know Adelaide and you’re not even in Adelaide, you’re out. Yeah, and so we only live 10 minutes apart but we’ve never met, yeah, prior to doing the whole surrogacy thing. Because what’s the distance from Adelaide to where you are? Just for context.

06:13
So around about 190, 90, 100 Ks. And so then to meet your surrogate, like in the same town or very nearby is just. Yeah, next time I go there.

06:22
Yes. And so I think that’s a great, you know, story for people to hear that you put it out on Facebook. You basically said, we need a surrogate, spread the word people, help us find one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the egg donor, was that a friend too that stepped forward and offered her eggs? So it was my friends, like I was friends with her mother first. Yes. And her mother had her daughter and then her daughter got to the legal agent and was like, I want to give you my eggs. Wow. She never wants children of her own, but she goes, can you take all of my eggs? Yes. You can make as many children as you want.

06:52
if you run out and you want more kids just let me know and I’ll give you more eggs.

06:56
fantastic. Yes. Um so yeah she was just you serious and she feels very serious and will both the egg donor and the surrogate have growing up in your family? The egg donor is that way and then the actual surrogate is already practicing that story of what you’re

07:26
when we go and see them we’re like you know this is Aunty, Aunty A and this is Tummy Mummy Alina so yeah. Beautiful and so then from that time where she officially reached out and or that your mutual friend connected you then you probably what spent some time getting to know each other and then… Um…

07:42
And it happened really quick. Right. It was just meant to be like, we, I think, chatted on the Thursday. We met up on the Saturday at the low park. Within five minutes of me telling her my story, I guess, of how we’ve got to this point, she was just like, so when do we start this? And I was like, you wanna go home and think about it? Because this is a pretty big thing to like go, can I have a child for you? I’m like, maybe think about it. She goes, I don’t need to think about it. And I’m like, well, hang on a minute. You’re still not legal age. You had to wait until she was 25.

08:12
because she was only 24 at that stage. But I said, in that year period, we could be doing all the counseling, the legals, the OBGYNs, the medicals, the fertility and all of that sort of stuff. And she goes, okay, let’s get it started. And so pretty much the following week, we got it started. So, and in that year of waiting for her to turn 25, we got it all done. And then as soon as she turned 25, we had to wait for a month because the cycle wasn’t right.

08:37
And then we went for our first transfer and she got pregnant first try. Yeah, good eggs. Yeah. Yeah, brilliant Yeah, I guess in some ways we would sort of advocate for spending some time getting to know each other But I guess if I had to defend your team, I would say

08:52
You did almost take a year though before you actually got pregnant. Getting to know each other, yeah. You were doing the steps concurrently. Some people just do the dating first and then do the steps quite quickly but I guess… We did it all together. I’m assuming you were having some times where you’d catch up and talk about surrogacy and then there were other times you were catching up and just getting to know each other as people? Correct, yeah. And you’re getting to know her kids because she’s got a few kids herself hasn’t she? She’s got four biological children of her own and she’s also

09:22
have had twins that are nine months old now themselves. So yeah, and they’re beautiful children. And so I suppose in that sense, she wasn’t brand new to this world of donating and helping people? No, that’s right, yeah. Okay, so then it worked first go. And so then I’m gonna share the photos again, because I think we’ve got a beautiful photo here of her announcing the pregnancy to you. Is that what we’ve got here? Yeah, that was amazing. I didn’t actually expect it. I was so negative with two failed cycles already from this previous surrogate. And then having this one, I was just like,

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me present like what are you doing? I opened it and I was in shock for a good half an hour and just crying because I didn’t expect like my mindset was already it’s gonna be a no and then yeah that was just unreal. Yeah beautiful tears and smiles I’m sure. Yeah yeah. Let’s move in.

10:07
Then we’ve got some photos of her being pregnant, sending you bump photos along the way. How was Helena’s pregnancy? I actually didn’t have a problem at all except for iron. She just needed a couple of iron infusions, but outside of that she reckons it was a breeze and I was like, wow, okay. And sometimes surrogates, be surrogates because they enjoyed being pregnant and giving birth. Yeah.

10:26
do that again. Yeah she said it was like you know she enjoyed it and I was like oh okay and she goes it’ll be a really quick birth like 45 minutes baby will be out and then you’ll be a mum and I was like oh okay. Wow how much did you see each other during pregnancy? Did you help her out at all? It was round about weekly it was weekly visits yeah weekly catch-ups yeah whether it was appointments or just to catch up. Yeah lovely and being so local meant you were able to attend the appointments. Easier yeah she got COVID twice as well while

10:56
So I did a lot of like food and medical drop-offs and all of that just to make sure she was comfortable. A stage where she said oh sleeping is getting a bit uncomfortable I can’t lay on my belly now so I went and bought her a belly pillow and you know just did a little bit of a care package and dropped it off off to her to make sure she was comfortable and happy as well. Yeah I was going to ask what other things during pregnancy did you feel comfortable with? Did you like get to know her kids and like take them out at all or? Yeah yeah yeah we we did that a couple of times

11:26
life parks and stuff so yeah it was great fun. What a wonderful technique. Oh sounds like you’ve got a great connection there and they would be so excited to see you guys be parents too I bet. They were they knew right from the start because we’re quite open and honest with them that Emmett wasn’t going home with them but they would still get to see Emmett and you know it’s not give me the baby and we’ll never see you again it’s you’re all part of the family now so it takes a village. It takes a village as we say

11:56
gender of the child that you’re having? We did because we had testing and everything done on the embryos after the two failed cycles we thought maybe the embryos weren’t going to be viable so we had testing done and it turned out all of them bar one were all viable and top grade perfect no abnormalities no nothing so we knew six weeks after her being pregnant with the extra testing that they do they said would you like to know the sex and I said yes but no I said Helena wants to

12:26
mention it to us when the time’s right. So, and we did the whole gender reveal thing. So, yeah. Cool, so you did something that suited the test. It was a surprising, yeah. Right, and then that brings us to the day of birth, hey? Yeah. How was the birthing day? So, totally not planned.

12:43
Right, so we were gonna have a water birth and all of that sort of stuff, but it just didn’t work out that way. Helena was in too much pain. I said you shouldn’t have to be in pain. And every time she hopped into the water, the labour would stop because he was obviously very comfortable in there and he’s like,

12:58
warm water, yeah no, I’m not gonna push down anyone come out. So she ended up having to go, I’m really sorry it’s not in our birth plan but I really need to hop out and I said you need to do what you need to do that’s fine. I totally support as long as you’re okay and baby’s okay we’ll do it whatever way you need to do it. So and the doctor turned around and said you know you were going to help birth him and everything did you still want to birth him and I’m like that would be great if I could so I ended up getting birth him. She had a

13:28
Wow, very hands. And when you look back at these photos, seeing him for the first time, how do you feel? Oh, yeah, it was such a magical moment. I could do it every single day, bringing babies into the world.

13:39
Even if they’re not mine, I would still love to do it. So yeah. And I imagine so much joy in the room from all the midwives and doctors there too to be a part of this. Yeah, it was the very first being regional country. The hospital that we went to had never had a surrogacy birth or experienced anything like this. So they were all on board and they’re like, can we have a few extra people in to record and this, that and the other and just experience it. And can we have like a student midwife in? And I’m like, yeah, sure. Like we’re all good.

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was comfortable with it I said that’s all good yeah so and she’s like more the merrier let’s get it done. We were that too, I had a student midwife too and it’s like yeah I mean the more people you get to know about it. Yeah so as he popped out and I grabbed him to put Emmett onto her belly I’m like so are we going again? And she just looked at me horrified like we haven’t even got through this one yet his cord hasn’t been even cut yet.

14:32
It was brilliant. I like you, Belle, you’re bold. I like that. Yeah, I was like, are we going again? Well, now that you’re four and a bit months post-birth, I’ll ask that then, have there been conversations about again? There hasn’t been yet, no. I’m still just enjoying Emmett at the moment, yeah. Who knows what the future holds, eh? Exactly right, exactly. We still got lots more on ice. Ah, yes. And then some other beautiful photos to work our way through here. You did some newborn photos with him. Yeah. Oh, he’s so little, isn’t he? He was. Yes.

15:01
He grew so quick. They don’t stay little forever. No. And so then these are photos of Helena’s children holding him. That’s right. Yeah. Big smiles on their faces. Oh, they absolutely adore him. Yeah. And how often roughly now do you catch up? Uh, maybe once a fortnight. Yep. And I think that’s about right. Yeah. With a little bit more often in those first couple of weeks post-birth for the cuddles and seeing each other or just sort of… Yeah. Probably, yeah, once a week probably it would have been at the start and then it just tapered off to like once a fortnight because

15:31
children with sporting activities and all of that sort of stuff but we’ve recently just talked about one of her daughters is doing like BMX right like racing riding so I said like I’ll bring Emmett out to like look and we’ll support her and all of that sort of stuff so we can have a watch so and she goes that would be awesome so. And how did Halina go post-birth? Did she have any postnatal wobbles in terms of how she was feeling like feeling like she needed a cuddle with the baby or she felt fine? Nothing that she ever said to

16:01
were all like she seems happy and all good about everything. They said you know like if she did I’m sure she would have said something to you so I’d always check in with her like every every second day or whatever I’d check in and be like do you need to see him or have a cuddle or this that and the other and she’s like no everything’s good you know and I’m always sending updated photos and stuff of him so yeah we keep communication via messenger and stuff pretty much every day or every other day anyway we chat. Well done

16:31
Yeah. And then here’s a photo of you guys at the youth court, the beginning the process to get the second birth certificate and… That’s right. ..you even made contact with the media to spread the word about Sarah. So what happened was the advertiser had a thing about submit your baby for the year of their birth type competition type thing and I’m like, oh, I’ll put it in there. Like, you know, be all right.

16:54
And the advertiser actually contacted me and said, we’re really intrigued with your story. Can we have a chat? And I said, yeah, sure, why not? I said, I’m a real great advocate for sorority in Australia. And I think it’s not a taboo subject. I think the more people know about it, the better. I said, I’d be more than happy to have a chat to you guys. So I said, we’re actually going to court to make Emmett legal. That was two days prior they messaged me to the court date. So it all worked out really quick there too. So they’re like, oh, we’ll get a photographer there.

17:24
a journalist there, right, right, right, I’m like, whoa, hang on, this is like…

17:27
busy but yeah so I said yep no worries let’s all give it a go and yeah so wonderful I had a chat to them as well and thank you for being up in the advertiser yes well thank you for being an advocate for surrogacy and spreading the word sharing your story you never know who you’ve inspired there well that’s right it should never be a taboo subject so oh there’s my little man and so these last photos here of him at his first Easter with a big bunny yeah and you get to have these milestones as a parent now that has been a long yeah

17:57
time and it’s amazing now I get them. Beautiful. Yeah. While we wait for questions to come up, Bill we were talking before about you know were there any particular things that your team did that you’re really proud of or some challenges that you found? I think you mentioned some of the certain things times during pregnancy were a bit challenging for you. So yeah, right about halfway when I had my stillborn births those dates really hit me. I found Helena because I’d obviously had that conversation with Helena and she was

18:27
take time on your own, I understand. If we don’t have contact for a few weeks or whatever, I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. I’m like, it’s all good. But she was there on the days that were the days of when I’ve lost my other two babies and she was a great support. So just to make sure that, you know, just show me that Emmett’s safe and still growing and all good. So yeah, that was reassuring. Because is that in your mind, you’re like, gosh, when I’ve got to this point in the past. It’s gonna happen again.

18:51
happen again things go wrong and so yeah I mean that’s lovely that your team was able to support each other and that Helena felt comfortable being that support. That’s right yeah she was through there. Yeah and how many weeks was he when he was born was he about on time? So we had him induced so we could all be there at the same time.

19:11
So he was induced at 39 weeks. Yep. So you got full pregnancy this time round. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was brilliant. I bet as you got to sort of that 37 week onward and you know, like it’s all healthy full term, you probably could go. I’m like, baby, you can come now. Anytime. Like anytime you wanna come little man, you can come. So yeah, it was like, but stay there and cook in there to be a little bit more perfect.

19:32
Yes, that’s right, that’s beautiful. Is there any advice that you’d give other people who are at the beginning of their journey in terms of what steps to take or? Counseling. Yeah? Huge advocate for counseling. Make sure you’re mentally prepared, especially if you’re gonna go down the egg donor route and the surrogate route, where you’re not actually using any of your own goods.

19:52
to make sure you’re mentally prepared for it all, which I did, and I’m glad that I took on the counseling and stuff. Open communication with your surrogate. Don’t hold back on any awkward conversations. Open communication is often what’s told, but can you give an example of that? Was there ever a time then when there was a sticky conversation that you weren’t sure how to bring up or she wasn’t sure how to bring up that you can think of? I’m trying to think, because we agreed on everything. From doctors to how the birth would go,

20:22
we agreed on but some of those conversations I was like do I touch on that and ask her and then I was like you know what you’ve got nothing to lose she’s either gonna say yes or no so I just straight out asked her and she was like I’m so glad you asked me because I was a bit worried and how I would ask you and I’m like you know with birth plan and all of that so I’m like just be honest just straight out direct so yeah. That’s good advice. So bring it up even if chances are if one person’s feeling uncomfortable about bringing up somebody else might be too so they’re probably glad that it got brought up. I had a couple of questions here

20:52
Anonymous asks, how did you get on the same page around expenses and what would be covered? I don’t know if we legally had to or not, but we even legally covered like paid for her partner’s days off work if he had to look after the children, things like that. We were just like, we’ll just pay a few days wages or whatever. We never made sure she was out of pocket, always, always just chucked her money and said like, that’s for fuel, that’s for, you know, for clothing,

21:22
real curry cravings. So it’s like, here, there’s some extra money, go get your curry cravings. Like, you know, it’s for baby, Emmett needs it, go get it. So we didn’t care. So did cash work for your team or a debit card that she had? Cash, I just end up doing the direct deposit it to her through I pay or whatever it is. I just straight in and went, oh, there’s another 100 or 200 or whatever. She goes, stop putting money in there. And I’m like, well, you’re not paying for it yourself. So yeah, it just worked out fine. That’s great. It sounds like you were very much on the front foot. And

21:52
That’s a dream IP there. I’m assuming in the earlier days before she was pregnant, you talked about some of those expenses to anticipate. Did, did, because also with the vitamins and minerals and all of that she needed, before the pregnancy for six months, she did elevate, had to do extra vitamin D and iron. I just said, well, I can either go to the chemist and buy it all for you, where I can give you the money and you can buy it from the chemist, or when we’re together, we’ll just pop in and grab it and I’ll give it to you. So yeah, no, it was easy enough done.

22:22
Sounds like, yeah, flexibility there, but you being on the front foot, that’s really helpful. Yeah. Amy and Cody asked, what were some things you did for your surrogate to help her with everyday life during pregnancy? Just dropping off hampers and parcels, like, you know, sometimes she’d say, like, I can’t sleep on my belly anymore, so I went straight out that day and bought a pregnancy pillow. She got COVID a couple of times during the pregnancy, so just dropped off, you know, things like hydrolytes and stuff to help her through that COVID, but not just for her,

22:52
children got COVID as well. We dropped off parcels as well for the kids and that as well. So they had stuff to keep them entertained and whatnot and keep them healthy while she had COVID. So, cause it’s not just about the mum. That’s really thoughtful. It’s we all might come into surrogacy thinking it’s about the surrogate, but you realize it’s about a whole family too. Isn’t it? That’s right. Yeah. Yeah. Jamie and Cody also asked, how did you track her expenses? Did you keep receipts and things or you weren’t so worried about that? I wasn’t worried about that.

23:19
I just paid for it. Like it didn’t worry. It didn’t worry for me. If she told me it was like $50, I would chuck like, you know, 70 or 80 bucks in there to make sure fuel and that was covered as well. Like it didn’t, I wasn’t tit for tat. I just gave. Yeah. So I’m like, she’s doing a huge thing for me. Like if I give her a few more.

23:35
more bucks, like she’d work it out where she’d go, no that’s too much but I’ll put it towards fuel for next week with our next appointment or whatever. And it worked out fine. I didn’t expect receipts or anything. I wonder if people at the beginning ask those questions because they might fear then at the end when you apply for parentage order, do you need to have all the receipts to prove all of this? Did you? I looked into all of that prior and knew that I didn’t need them so it was fine. Yeah and so I think that’s really helpful to tell people that no you don’t need to keep all of these receipts. Nobody gets asked. Some teams I

24:05
a separate bank account, this is what we do with SASS too. And so then the IPs have their normal bank account, but then if you have a surrogacy bank account and all of the money and the direct debits or the- Fall into the one. Fall into one in case you ever did need to suddenly produce it for a lawyer at the end, if it’s only one bank account on its own, could make it easy for you. Kylie asks, did your team discuss and put together what you wanted in your surrogacy agreement and your parenting plan concurrently? So yeah, we had a chat about everything and we agreed, we’ve agreed on everything so far. Yeah.

24:35
It hasn’t been a discussion of, you know, disagreements or anything like that. We’ve agreed on everything, pretty much. Yeah. And did you find a list of questions from, like, a surrogacy Facebook community of what questions to talk about? Yeah, there was a few things that in South Australia’s surrogacy page on Facebook, they’d throw questions out into there and I’d jot them down. I’d be like, oh, I should ask Helena that one. And, you know, then I’d be like, you know, I’d be thinking and I’d be like, maybe I should ask her that question. I’d jot it down.

25:05
and she’d do the same thing. Like I’m like, is there anything you need to ask me or you need or whatever like that, just feel free to be straight direct. So it worked really well. Had either you or Helena ever met other teams who had done surrogacy before? Had she ever talked to another surrogate or did you know? No, she’d only done the egg donor part to start with, yeah. Right, well that’s.

25:27
Wonderful. We’ve gone through some questions. While we’ve been having those conversations, Belle, is there anything that has sprung to mind about your team that you’d be like, oh, I’d like to mention that? That we were perfect. And we made the most beautiful baby and I would do it a thousand times again. I’m sure Helena wouldn’t like to go through that many times, but yeah. I wonder if you want to come on and do a webinar. I wonder if that’s her sort of thing. It would be interesting to know her side of things, actually.

25:53
It doesn’t sound like there are many bumps to talk about. No, there wasn’t. I don’t think we had one bump whatsoever. She’d be very apologetic, like the whole water birth thing, how that didn’t eventuate. She was so apologetic. I’m like, don’t be apologetic. I’m like, as long as you’re healthy and okay, and Bubbs comes out healthy and okay. I said, I don’t care how he comes into the world. So yeah. I’ve got two questions. Her partner, was that, was he on board? He was on board.

26:17
right from the start and he said he would be throughout the full pregnancy. Their relationship didn’t last the whole pregnancy but he was still on board throughout the whole pregnancy even though they weren’t together. Yeah right. Is he the dad? So he would look after the boys and we still paid for his loss of wages and stuff like that for having the kids.

26:37
Even the day she had to give birth and a couple of days afterwards, I’ve made sure that he was covered and all of that sort of stuff as well. Yeah, right. Because the counselling that you have to do beforehand, the official stuff involves the surrogate’s partner. She has one. Did that involve him? It did. Yeah.

26:51
Right, so he was essentially part of that agreement. Halfway through the pregnancy then it wasn’t on anymore. Did his name go on the first birth certificate then? No. So you just put hers in no father? Yep, that’s right. Yeah, right, okay. Did he have to sign something at the end though to issue the parentage order? Cause he had been-

27:08
counselling before? No? Okay, that’s interesting. Yeah. And then when you’re saying before about you’re an advocate for counselling and that you’ve had lots over the years, have you stayed with the same counsellor or have you seen somebody that specialises in surrogacy? The only one that specialises in surrogacy was that one when we did the whole surrogacy agreement stuff, but prior to that

27:29
it wasn’t anyone who was in surrogacy. No, it was just one at the fertility clinic at reprimand and they were quite helpful. I think Kate was the one we went through for the surrogacy and one price that was just from through the GP, a Dr. Hunt her name was. And she was brilliant for just like female reproductive stuff and that. So yeah, great. Well, good. Well, I think we’re sort of at the end here. I think we’ve done well tonight. We’ve had a combination

27:58
in the chat are saying thank you for sharing your story, Bell. It’s beautiful and congratulations on your beautiful boy, your story of resilience. Thank you so much. So you’ve done it, Bell. You’ve become a mum, hey? I know. It’s taken many years, like 25 years, but I’ve got there. And it’s well worth the wait. So highly recommend to anyone, don’t give up. You know, if you really want to become a parent, stick to it and it will happen. Gotta ride the waves. Yeah, ride the waves, hey? Yep. And you just never know how far shore is away sometimes. That’s right. Just keep swimming.

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Nemo, just keep swimming, just keep swimming. That’s gonna be my hook. Like for each past episode, I have something unique. And a few minutes ago, it was gonna be, we were perfect. Yeah, yeah, now just keep swimming. Nobody said that yet. So there you go, you can be the just keep swimming team. Yeah, that’s brilliant. Well you have, Bill, you’ve for many, many years, you’ve just kept swimming and you’ve done it. So thank you for sharing your story. Not any time. Thank you for listening to this episode.

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To see the beautiful images mentioned, head to our YouTube channel to watch the webinar recording. If you’re looking for more support and potentially connecting with a surrogate or intended parents, head to our website, surrogacyaustralia.org to check out the resources and to learn more about SASS. Please subscribe to this podcast if you found it valuable and share it with someone so they too can benefit from this conversation. Until next time, welcome to the village.